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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
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ISSN 1522-6913

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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #7
                         May 16, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator


Table of Contents

+ Moderator Comments

    "Ethical e-mail marketing series begins today"
      - Gary K. Foote

+ New Subjects

    "Legislating against spam?"
       - Cheryl Gonzalez

    "Mailing list query"
       - M. B. Kunz
       - Moderator's $.02

+ Ongoing

    "Shotgun advertising"
       - Bob Rankin

    "Opt-in programs"
       - Glenn Barry

    "Opt-in vs. Opt-out"
       - Roger Staubus

+ The Corkboard

    "INTELLIPOST CORP launches BonusMail"
       - Philip Stills

+ Miscellaneous

    "Industry Estimates"
       - Philip Stills


                       Moderator Comments

Hi everyone,

Today marks the beginning of our 4-Part series titled, "Ethical,
Proactive Direct Marketing by E-mail".  Part I will run today with
Parts II, III and IV running on Monday, Wednesday and Friday of next
week.  The series will be e-mailed to all E-Marketing subscribers as
separate, special issues.  Comments posted to this list are welcome.

Gary K. Foote

                          New Subjects

From: Cheryl 
Subject: Legislation for Spam?

Just as this mailing list is getting started, here's another group
that has decided to open *pandora's box* by trying to get the
government to pass legislation.  I call it a *pandora* because once
the government starts on the internet...I doubt they will stop.
Are we in favor of legislation?
> Group Says, "Ban Junk Electronic Mail"
> Internet, May 9, 1997--The Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial
> Email  (CAUCE) announced today that it is calling for a legal ban on
> unsolicited Email advertising. CAUCE has drafted an amendment to the
> federal law that bans unsolicited fax advertisements, to extend it to
> cover unsolicited Email advertising on the same terms. The proposal
> would give Email users control of the kinds of advertising they are
> willing to accept in their mailboxes, whether they prefer to shut it
> off completely, or ask for more.
> The junk fax law (more formally, portions of 47 USC 227), provides that
> businesses may offer goods and services in fax messages only if the
> recipient has asked for the information or has a previous business
> relationship with the company. Recipients may ask to be taken off
> mailing lists at any time. Violation can result in a civil penalty of
> $500 per message, or more in the case of clearly willful violation or
> failure to provide a valid return fax number. Extending the same terms
> to Email should work equally well, according to CAUCE.
> The arguments against junk Email and junk fax are very similar. Cost
> shifting to the recipient and denial of service are two of the most
> important.
> For example, many Email users and mailing lists have a daily limit on
> traffic, so UCE can displace other traffic and prevent it getting
> through.
> "Starting from an existing law has several important advantages," said
> CAUCE co-founder Edward Cherlin. "We have a law that has worked well,
> that covers a very similar problem, and that has passed a
> constitutional  challenge in court. The only thing really wrong with
> the junk fax law from  our point of view is that so few people know it
> exists, so junk fax still continues on a small scale. That makes
> education the number two priority for us, behind getting the law
> passed."
> The CAUCE Web site at is an important part of the
> organization's education campaign. It offers information about UCE and
> the proposed amendment, a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) page, and a
> sign-up page where visitors can join CAUCE to receive a newsletter on
> Spam issues, or register their support for the proposal. Electronic
> signatures  will be sorted and delivered to the appropriate Senators
> and Representatives.
> The site also explains why other proposed solutions to UCE don't work,
> and how UCE harms other businesses. Because of UCE, many people are
> unwilling to deal with any online business. In particular it is
> impossible to create anything like a complete Internet Email directory
> service, since it would be used to generate mailing lists.
> "We're not against commerce on-line. We're just against paying to
>  receive  junk mail. It's time-consuming to deal with, and it's
> incredibly costly - a  cost which has to be passed on by the Internet
> Service Provider (ISP) to  their subscribers." said CAUCE member John
> Mozena.

> The Coalition Against UCE (Unsolicited Commercial Email) was founded by
> Scott Hazen Mueller, Vice President for Engineering for Whole Earth
> Networks, Edward Cherlin, Vice President for Business Development of
> NewbieNet, a free educational service for novice Internet users, and
> Doug  Muth, a UNIX system administrator. Legal expertise was provided
> by Anne  Mitchell, an attorney in Santa Clara, CA with many years'
> experience on  the Internet. The lobbying effort in Washington is led
> by Ray  Everett-Church, a contractor with various ISPs on computer
> security issues.
> For more information on the Coalition and its lobbying efforts, visit
> its Web home page at The CAUCE Web site explains
> the Spam problem, gives the text of the current law prohibiting junk
> faxes and the proposed amendment, and answers common questions about
> the proposal.
> More information on UCE, or "spam", can be found at
> The current text of 47 USC 277 is
> available at

I for one am very disappointed to see this.  The internet may be the
wild, wild west....but even that got civilized over time.

Cheryl Gonzalez, Registered Dietitian
Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist

    |            MAKE YOUR HEALTH, YOUR FIRST WEALTH !!!         |
    |          Special Report on Oxygen by Fax-On-Demand:        |
    |              512-505-6808 - follow the prompts             |
    |                        |

                      ***  NEW POST  ***

From: "M. B. Kunz" 
Subject: mailing list query

I'm currently conducting research via web instrument; I'm trying to in
some way determine a response rate, and since I'm posting to mailing
lists I think getting an approximate number of subscribers to the list
would be appropriate.  In some of the list information received at the
time of subscribing, I can send a REVIEW command to get the names of
subscribers and the total number (which includes those who are set to
concealed).  This works with lists set up at listserv@ lists.  Can anyone
tell me if this will also work with majordomo@  setups as well?  If not,
any other suggestions at determining the size of the subscriber list?
Thanks in advance,

Take my research survey on Internet Shopping

Michelle B. Kunz                  email:
Assistant Professor               phone: 606-783-2972
Retail Merchandising & Design     fax: 606-783-5007
Morehead State University         Morehead, KY   40351

[Moderator $.02]


There are just too many people out there who will join a list, simply to
do a 'who' and capture the list subscriber's e-mail addresses.  Most, if
not all, responsible list-owners are now disabline this feature to
protect their subscribers from being spammed by e-mail grabbers.  The
proper way to promote to a mailing list subscriber base is to subscribe
yourself and become a part of that community, offering your input and
participation.  Let your signature file be your [AD].

I think the best way to find out how large a list's circulation is, is
to ask the list-owner.



From: Bob Rankin 
Subject: shotgun advertising

An earlier posting read:

>Example:Quantum Communicatiom,$300 100,000 e-mail ads Guaranteed
>response rate or they will resend.After 5 week of me calling them.
>They said they sent the ad twice,still 0 response,I gave up.

This sounds like one of those mailings where there are dozens of ads, one
after the other, sometimes with a token bit of "content" in the beginning.
Don't waste your money there - nobody is going to read past the REMOVE

I get a mailing from "Global Dynamics" or somesuch (out of
wihch is just a bunch of ads with old jokes scattered throughout.  He
alleges to have 1.2 million recipients, but the number who actually READ
his message is probably closer to 1.2!

  |     "Why | Surf When / You Can | Ride The | Bus?"      /    |  \
  |__________|__________/__________|__________|___________/     |   \
 /                                                       /______|----\
| Put your Billboard on the Bus!  80K riders worldwide.  |//////|    |
|            For info, send e-mail to  |//////|    |
   \___/  \___/  T h e   I n t e r n e t   T o u r B u s    \___/

                       ***  NEW POST  ***

From: Glenn Barry 
Subject: Re: The E-Marketing Digest, V2, #6

> Bruce Gabrielle Wrote

> 2. Pay for opt-in lists, such as PostMaster Direct and Email Announce.
> Before you pay anyone to send your message bulk, ask them how their
> lists are compiled.  If they're opt-out lists (ie. the receiver is
> subscribed without their consent, and must send a "remove" request)
> stay far away from those people.


They spammed me today with a "Opt Out" message claiming it was not spam.

Now I have never "opted in" so how come I'm getting ZD net spam??

What's more it appears they have subcribed me to the following:!!

deletion info. you are not necessarily subscribed to all the lists below

[moderator snip of 20 more of these things]

Their header says
UNSUB ALL: -forward- this entire message to
(be sure to *forward* the ENTIRE message, or it will not unsubscribe

That's a threat!

It seems I subscribed to two NewsLinx lists

Newslinx: Internet-Ezines
Newslinx: Internet-Internet Law

and newslinx use Netcreations (Postmaster direct) who have now decided
I am fair game for anything they choose to send me at 15 cents a time.
Now if this keeps up I will get to the stage of changing my email
address and never giving it to anyone again.

Now list members one of our own says this!

> comment:"Alvin Davis" 
> I've used Postmaster Direct,I think they're one of the best.  The
> problem I've found with all these companies is how to monitor the
> results.  Problem#1-If you use your e-mail address or 800# in the ad
> your may get flamed to death.

Alvin I feel like flaming you for attitude alone. If you don't put
your real email address in you deserve flaming!

> Solution- I'll never use this type of marketing,until a good system
> is in place for me to know the e-mails were sent to real opportunity
> seekers.

OK you redeemed yourself a little.

email SPAM is driving me nuts. If postmaster direct is the best then
we have real problems and as an industry email will pay the price.

Glenn Barry

                        ***  NEW POST  ***

From: Roger Staubus 
Subject: Re: Paul Schilling Post

Just want to reinforce the point that Paul Schilling made in his post.
I have a part-time business that I am trying to promote online in a
responsible manner.  I have purchased a list of Opportunity Seekers, but do
not know how the seller generated the e-mail addresses.  Since I have
received flames, some believe I am sending unsolicited e-mail (spam) when I
am trying to target those individuals who would ordinarily be interested in
this type of message.  I honor all requests to remove from my list, but
still have received some very nasty messages.

It would seem to me to be a philosophical issue, in that everyone would
like to receive the e-mail messages that they want to receive, but do not
want to receive the ones they do not want to receive. To be able to get the
messages you do want to receive, you have to risk getting some that you do
not want to receive.

With regard to targeted e-mail marketing, the opt-in approach seems to have
everything going for it, but does not seem to be making the headway that
the philosophical basis for it would suggest.

Another problem is that I have been looking for Income Opportunities on the
Internet, and now I have found the one or ones that suit me.
However, in the process, I have been placed on lists that suggest to others
that sending me an Income Opportunity might be appropriate.
However, now that I have the one, or ones that I am satisfied with, when
people now send me e-mail messages regarding possible Income Opportunities,
I now consider them unsolicited e-mail messages, when at a previous time, I
would not have done so.

There seems to be a hard core element on the Internet that regards commerce
as a dirty endeavor, and anyone involved is painted to be a reprehensible

So I quote from Paul Schilling, "So when complaining about getting spam
from the same person over and over or thinking that nobody honors remove
requests...consider the facts, and please react with courtesy rather than
disgust. Don't trash or flame them.  The person sending the ad may be just
an individual sending for the first time  no smarter than you that is
trying to make a living from home."

So, in closing, I believe there are philosophical issues that have not been
properly addressed, with any degree of precision, and believe that many
people have a shifting, or rising standard, to apply to others, that at one
time they would not have been willing to apply to themselves.

Also, is commerce acceptable behavior, is it not?  Addressing the large
issues might help determine appropriate online conduct.

Roger Staubus

                          The Corkboard

From: Philip Stills

INTELLIPOST CORP launched BonusMail, a scheme that awards consumers
points for answering a questionnaire and responding to e-mail
pitches. The points can be exchanged for "Rew@rds," or special
offers on books, videos, wines or frequent flyer miles.
Participating companies so far include American Airlines, United
Airlines, Sprint and MCI. BonusMail appears to be the first
marketing program of its kind that is based on e-mail, giving
Intellipost a potential consumer audience of 40 mil users, as
opposed to the Web's 17 mil users. Intellipost began signing up
"STARS" (Specially Targeted Advertising Recipients) in 3/97. To
receive credit, these consumers must send back the code word at the
bottom of the messages. BonusMail charges advertisers a fee for each
text e-mail sent, and additional fees if the message is opened or
includes graphics.


From: Philip Stills

INDUSTRY ESTIMATES:  Fifteen percent of the US population (30
million adults) use email.  (Forrester Research) Eleven million of
the 36 million US businesses use email. (Computer Industry Almanac)
By 2001, 50% of the US population (135 million) will use email.
(Forrester Research) Worldwide, 60 million have email -- expected
450 million in 3 years. (Computer Industry Almanac)

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