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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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                      The E-Marketing Digest
                       Volume #2, Issue #34
                           June 18, 1997
                     Gary K. Foote, Moderator

Visit The E-Marketing Website
A Member of The List Exchange

Table of Contents

+ New Subjects

    "Why do they do it..?"
       - Michael W. Kelley

    "On targeting"
       - HeinRich W. KocH

+ Ongoing

    "Hidden ID"
       - Robert Smith

    "Newsletter Ads"
       - Claire Amundsen

    "Call for revised SMTP Standards"
       - Conrad Dubois


                          New Subjects

From: "Michael W. Kelley" 
Subject: Why do they do it...??

> I am almost shocked when companies tell me that they are considering
> using such a service (as Bulk UCE).   One would think that the
> people that use such a service (those selling pornography and
> get rich quick scams) would realize the negative impact using such
> a service could have to their online reputation.   But then again,
> they must be getting *some* results from it or they wouldn't
> continue using it and all of these types of companies would
> become extinct........
> Adam Boettiger

They do it because:

1) it looks like it works...

2) they will write a better ad copy which will keep the flames from
coming. NOT!

That is, however, the reasoning behind it.

I sent out one email message on purpose using a demo version of
Ready, Aim, Fire, and one email by accident when I hit my reply all
button in response to another offer.

I received no requests for info or anything like that, and many
requests for removal from my 'list' or reports to my ISP about
spamming.... resulting in a warning from my ISP.

Until you try it and see what the results are, one always thinks they
can make the bigger and better mousetrap.

We are all trying to turn a dollar, and because we see so much of UCE
it must be working for SOMEONE out there. That makes it all the more
enticing to try. I would have to beleive that for every
Cyber-Promotions lawsuit there has to be literally dozens of users
out there getting warnings from their ISPs, losing their accounts
suddenly, or suffering mail bombs and the like from irate users that
have nothing better to do with their online time than reply to 'spam'.
We just don't hear about the hordes of little guys. Maybe we should
see how many users had experiences like me, and avoid UCE now because
of it?

My 5c worth. 
Pagers & Services - Internet Services - FREE Prepay phonecards
Wireless Security Systems w/alarm - Northern Lights Online Personals
Recycle/Reuse Ribbons/Cartridges - Great Internet Pirates Hunt

A Public Service - Stacey Lynn Balas, mysterious disappearance 11/26/96

                   ***  NEW POST -  On Targeting  ***

From: Belle Model 
Subject: On Targeting

> ...difference Sanford Wallace and a responsible e-marketer
>does has to do with targeting.

I suppose he would if he could. How else can you find out who on
the Internet wants what you are selling?

-----------------------------------------------------------------     Belle Model    (HeinRich W. KocH)


From: Robert Smith 
Subject: hidden 'ID'

>I like the idea of a hidden 'ID' for each e-mail connection,
>but I have to wonder...  wont those boyz with the best computer
>toyz quickly figure how to hack IDs?

I feel this is still a good idea even though it will create jobs for

Most people that send out SPAM are inexperienced marketers or they
wouldn't be using SPAM to get out their message in the first place.

Sure hackers could figure a way through it but wouldn't it be
nice to cut down the amount of SPAM mail be 95%.  I think so.

    _\|/_  A Seed Gives Birth to Fruit of it's Own Kind
    (O O)
Robert Smith  Web Site Design & Promotion
 *  2606 Summer Lane Eugene OR 97404  *
Mailto: (541) 689-1847

My Favorite "Get Rich Quick" Program:

                  ***  NEW POST - Newsletter Ads  ***

From: Claire Amundsen 
Subject: RE: Newsletter Ads

>We've been getting about a 15% yes response from the
>initial one-line inquiry.  Trouble is, and I admit I am
>Brand Spanking New to e-mail ad sales and don't know
>exactly what I am doing, I can't close 'em.


I think you're running into two basic problems.  One is tough to
overcome, the other not tough, but you may not like the answer. ;)

The first one, the tough one, Ignorance.  I think many people
purchasing ads, know the web, barely the web, and only the web.
They're not long-term netizens, they don't  understand mailing
lists and e-zines, and not understanding, they see little value.

I think a success story from one of your advertisers (offer an
excited articulate person some free space) would be critical in
pitching such a sale -- the excited advertiser doesn't have to
give numbers (although if the numbers were good enough, it
wouldn't hurt), but simply speak in an excited and positive
vein about their experience advertising with your newsletter.

As a purchaser of ad space (one who *does* by space in e-zines
and mailing  lists), I won't make the assumption that "Of course,
you *are* sending copies of the newsletter to the people who also
get your ad rate card, aren't you?"  -- I've had to request this
very basic info from more than one e-zine.  Trust me, no matter
how good the deal, we don't do any online advertising (I don't
handle print) in anything that I haven't read... usually several
issues.  For those who are really ignorant of e-zines, seeing
copies of what you do is critical.

The second obstacle I see is pricing.  No, $25 doesn't sound
like much, but everyone, including advertisers, is on a
limited budget and trust me, there are a bunch of people out
there competing for my $25 bucks. I squeeze every penny I can
out of the budget I'm given and yes, we buy on large sites
(e.g., Entrepreneur and Women's Wire), but down to the last $25,
I'm making choices -- we can't advertise everywhere... and I can
get banner ads (nice colorful dancing banners) for $25 CPM -- why
should I pay the same price for plain ASCII?  Consider this in
your pricing structure and see the tip below for one possible
way to address the issue.

Another struggle for e-zines selling ads (if they're selling to
knowledgeable people) is that if I buy 10,000 impressions on a
web site, the exposure to repeat viewers is going to be a lot less
than if I buy 10 ads in a mailing list with 1,000 readers.

Understand, this is not not NOT to say that it can't be done,
but to give you some ideas of the obstacles from a purchaser's
point of view.

TIP: tell the potential advertiser just how much your list is
growing (150 per issue) and offer to lock the price of their ad
for the length of the buy -- no matter how much the list grows.
I didn't think this tip up, btw, it's the *reason* I bought ad
space in an e-zine where I thought the CPM was quite a bit high.
It's a *fast* growing list -- we bought 6 months worth of ads.

If you're list grows really quickly, it'll be a great deal for
the advertiser and will give you a stable of advertisers to
garner compliments from and to showoff/prove your experience
to new advertisers.

Claire Amundsen
Web Master
Proven Edge: The One-Program Software Solution for Today's Small

         ***  NEW POST - Call for revised SMTP Standards  ***

Subject: Re: Call for revised SMTP Standards

> From: Adam Boettiger 
> Subject: A call for revised SMTP standards globally

> I am almost shocked when companies tell me that they are considering
> using such a service (as Bulk UCE).   One would think that the
> people that use such a service (those selling pornography and
> get rich quick scams) would realize the negative impact using such
> a service could have to their online reputation.

I severely doubt that those who SPAM in the name of
pornography or a TRUE get rich quick scam really care about their
reputation. They are simply looking to make money.  But I am not
surprised that many legitimate businesses are contemplating using
UCE. Like many who belong to this list, I believe TARGETTED UCE
is OK and acceptable. The problem that most people have is really
finding that TARGET audience. Many are willing to risk looking "bad"
to a few if the ends justifies the means. If a UCE campaign is done
right, very few recipients will complain. And many will be thankful
because they probably do need the products/services being marketed,
or it may give them an opportunity to lower their costs should they
already in fact be using those products/services.

> I think there are two ways that this type of irresponsible marketing
> can be stopped - at least to stop them from using others' domains
> and causing system outtages - and these are my opinions only, not
> requests:
> 1.  Each and every ISP whose domain gets "borrowed" by these companies
> should file a lawsuit and seek high damage amounts.   They may have deep
> pockets, but no one is immune to bankrupcy.   I am sure there are
> many lawyers who would even volunteer their time to file such suits.

I have no problem with that. If someone wants to use UCE they should
use their own account and always allow for and honor remove requests.

> 2.  I would call for a revamping of SMTP standards on a global
> scale.    When I receive my Pop account from my ISP, I would be also
> issued something similar to a Verisign ID that would be invisible on
> my email messages, but without it I could not send out.
> As it stands now, smtp is designed for handshaking and can easily be
> duped by people like Sanford.   Unfortunately this would require
> major restructuring of protocals, but it would effectively put them
> out of business if the only domains they could put in the return address
> were their own.

The big question for that one would be "How Much is it going to
cost?" Most people would probably have no problem paying a few more
dollars a month to eliminate or at least greatly reduce SPAM. But
will it truly cost just a few more dollars or will the ISP's have to
double their current rates to accommodate this? And will it really
stop SPAM? I don't think so. Many use their own account today and
still will. Spamford Wallace and others who do the same as he does
should be stopped from using other people's domains. But don't call
for a huge overhaul of the system just to stop him. You'll make him a
martyr and that's the last thing he should be.

>They may "appear" to be genuinely concerned with
>helping businesses promote themselves on the Net, but you and I
>and all the other veteran E-Marketers know that the Internet is
>not television and it never will be. You can't broadcast email out to
>4 million people and call it "successfully targeting your niche market".

You are right Adam, the internet is not television. But that's
exactly why targetted UCE can and does work well for the small
business person who can't afford to advertise on television or put
together a decent direct mail campaign. Once again the key is
targetting the prospect. Maybe I sell a product/service that can help
manufacturers of durable goods do their job more efficiently and
safer. I don't think I should be lumped into the same category as the
porno scum or Spamford, just because I used UCE to tell a few
thousand manufacturers about what I have to offer.

Go ahead and prosecute the jerk who steals others resources and sends
porno crap to millions. But don't throw the baby out with the bath
water and don't ask for the entire system to change to stop a very
small minority. In the end, the people who truly care about their
customers will be the biggest winners, regardless of what medium they
use to market their products/services.

Just my $.02,
Conrad Dubois

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