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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #63
                          Aug 19, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest Website:

Table of Contents

+ New Subjects

   "E-mail address question"
        - Klaus Arnhold

+ Ongoing

    "E-mail Discussion Lists"
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Moderator Reply
       - Paul Myers


                          New Subjects

From: Klaus Arnhold 
Subject: E-mail address question

Greetings all,

maybe someone from the list can help with a question specific
to list owners.

I run a netmarketing list in German language myself but
would be very interested to find out to how many countries
this is distributed apart from Germany. From correspondences
I know that we have some subscribers from the US, Australia
and Switzerland that is all so far.

How can I check out to which countries the addresses on the
subscriber's list are related to?

Best regards

Klaus Arnhold

 <><><><> NETMARKETING - the German Mailinglist <><><><>
>    Discussion and trends about online marketing in   =
>        Germany. Stay tuned - Subscribe for FREE      =
>  Further information @ =


From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: The E-Marketing Digest, V2, #62

At 08:08 AM 8/16/97, you wrote:

>One of the best things any business person can do, whether
>online or offline, is build their image as expert in their
>field of endeavor.  One effective method of doing this online
>is to host an e-mail discussion list.  Though this undertaking
>is time consuming it is also rewarding in many ways...

I have been considering a discussion list for some time now, and
still cannot see the benefits.  I am on 82 lists and I do guest
host the International Business List.  I am trying to determine
whether it is better to host a list or be active on many (or both).

>1) As moderator/host of a list you will be forced to read each
>post completely to evaluate it's content and to consider replies.
>This means that you will be exposed to each and every thought on
>your chosen subject that crosses your 'desk'...  and they will
>sink into your memory as valuable information.

Same for being a member of a list(s).  The only difference is, as
moderator you get to dump Spam.

>2) Your image - simply by the fact that you host a forum - will
>be raised to that of 'expert' in the topic of your list.  Whether
>you are truly expert or not when you begin, it will certainly be
>true soon enough (See #1 for the reason this is so).

Same if you are an active member.

>3) Your subscribers often become your customers.  Don't
>misunderstand me, a discussion list you host/moderate is NOT a place
>to push your wares or services.  It IS a place where people
>interested in these things will come for advice, info, etc., and
>where there are interested people - there are also customers.

How?  For example, sorry to say, but I don't even know what you
do, other than host this list and the List Exchange  - both great
lists, and excellent source of information.  This may be my fault
for not seeking more.  Or, I may be more interested in the
content of the list rather than what you can offer.   Or you may
not get your message across well enough.

As you may recall, I posted this same question/comment to the
list exchange and a couple of lists, and got some great answers.
As I see it there are four different options:

1.  Moderated digest list like yours, and John Audette's I-Sales.
2.  Moderated lists like Adam Boettiger's I-Advertising (was
digest) and Ray Gabriel's International Business List.
3.  Unmoderated free-for-alls like Abby Wool's  4 marketing lists
or the Kawasaki list, which is running by itself (Guy Kawasaki
left 10 years ago).  (Note: Al Silverberg's Web Consultant's list
is unmoderated, but Al does step in often to control the list and
keep it professional.)
4.  Newsletters with no direct input from the members.

The first two are controllable, and may be of value, depending on
how the owner positions himself.  The third one is a waste for
the owner, and the only purpose is for folks to "hang out by the
water cooler."   But they do act as a forum for members to air
their views - which benefits members more so than owners.  The
last is probably the best forum to get the owner's point across,
but of less value to the members.

IMHO, the best list has not been developed yet, although Kurt
Sweitzger's (sp?) Technoplex comes close, but does not have
enough promotion/activity.    A successful list has to direct
members back to the owner's site to be effective.  Or a
successful list has to be a win-win situation for all members,
i.e., referral source, joint projects, etc.

>4) Eventual hard-copy publishing is often possible, too.  I keep
>an archive of all of my posts... an archive that I plan to soon mine
>for those 'gold nuggets of wisdom' I have written.  Compiling them
>into book form will take some time and I will no doubt have to
>look fairly long and hard for a publisher interested in my 'drivel',
>but the prospect of becoming a published author is one that I relish.

This may be of interest, but not worth establishing a list.

>If you are interested in hosting/moderating a list a good
>starting point would be The List Exchange ,
>an online resource with tons of links to anything and everything
>you ever wanted to know about list ownership.

An excellent source of information.

So anyway, Mr. Foote  "Is there a real Santa Claus?" 

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases:
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.

                   ***  [Moderator Reply]  ***

Hi George,

If you subscribe to 82 lists and participate in each I'd say
you pretty much have the list-promotion angle covered.  I don't
think I could read that much each day.  As it is I subscribe to
a couple of dozen and have to work to keep up with them all.
My hat is off to you, George...  you are a list-subscriber

I am intrigued by your mention of guest moderation.  It's not a
concept I have considered, but agree that itmight have great value...
offering a new slant on an 'old' subject by a simple means.  Hmmm...
I might try that out on this list sometime.

>>3) Your subscribers often become your customers.


>How?  For example, sorry to say, but I don't even know what you
>do, other than host this list and the List Exchange  - both great
>lists, and excellent source of information.  This may be my fault
>for not seeking more.  Or, I may be more interested in the
>content of the list rather than what you can offer.   Or you may
>not get your message across well enough.

It's true, I don't push myself or my services on this list or on
the List Exchange Digest.  Both are labors of love and, as such,
have been more of a personal endeavor than a business positioning
effort.  Indeed, I have not even included my own signature with
my posts to these forums.  Nonetheless, business has come my way
as a result of these activities.  I expect it will continue to
trickle in here and there without my becoming heavy handed in

I agree that your first two list types (moderated digests and
live moderated) seem to be the most 'valuable' to the list owner.
The third (unmoderated free for all) can be fun - many hobby lists
are like this and carry a great deal of traffic each day - but the
list owner rarely gets more than a pat on the back for their
effort.  The fourth type (newsletter) can be very effective as a
tool for positioning, but it takes a higher level of dedication
and more hours from your day to self-publish a regular newsletter
than it does to moderate types one or two.

>A successful list has to direct
>members back to the owner's site to be effective.  Or a
>successful list has to be a win-win situation for all members,
>i.e., referral source, joint projects, etc.

I think this is where I have not made the necessary efforts.  Sure,
there is a pointer to the site and the archives at the end of each
digest, but I have not made any further efforts to bring people to
the site.  It is, after all, an adjunct to my main business page -
part of the learning fountain, as Paul Seigel has called such sites -
not the prime focus.

Your final question...

>"Is there a real Santa Claus?"

...made me smile a bit.  Lots of folks think that the internet is
Santa Claus and that if they only get a website up, customers will
flock to buy their wares.  Sadly, as I'm sure you know, this is not
the case.  Just like any other business you have to work hard to
make an online venture pay off.  I feel that the early rush to the
web, and the subsequent non-response experienced by many of these
early buyers of web development services, has hurt today's internet
development business.  Too many html writers sold sites without
any marketing backup...  too many people got burned by this
practice.  It will be some time before many try a second website.

Just for kicks, here is my regular .sig.  Who knows...  maybe I'll
gain some customers by using here it more often.  


    Gary K. Foote       
    Internet Marketing, Since 1994

    The List Exchange Digest - Discussing List Owners Issues
    The E-Marketing Digest - Discussing Electronic Marketing
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           ***  NEW POST - E-mail Discussion Lists  ***

From: "Paul Myers" 
Subject: Re: Email Discussion Lists


> You can use Eudora or Pegasus to maintain a list of
> subscribers, but the larger your circulation, the longer
> it will take to send out your publication because the
> software must verify each address before moving on to the
> next.

Funny you should mention this just now. I finished an
article today that is going out in one of my newsletters on
this very subject. It is a step by step explanation of how to
run a discussion list using Pegasus. Everything from an open,
one post at a time type list, right up to a digest or

It's not selling anything, surprisingly. Just something I
put together because a lot of people ask for info on how to
get a list started, how much to pay, etc. This is a pretty
solid and safe way to handle the process for new listowners
or those who would like to be. And a great way to run small
closed lists for hobby groups, clubs, and online businesses
that use an extended open structure. Great for brainstorming
groups, too.

Cheap, too. ($0) Which is perfect for clubs and kids
interests. Or folks who just don't see paying full list
rental fees for a small list of people.

Anyone who'd like a copy can get it off the autoresponder at

If this sounds a little like a sales pitch, in a way it is.
I really think that everyone should try their hand at lists,
even if just a brainstorming group. It's an educational
experience not only in community, but what goes into building
one. I think that's a vital skill for online business people.
And there doesn't seem to be anywhere to learn it but from

One note on Pegasus: I sent an announcement out a couple
weeks ago to one newsletter list (1500 subs) and it took all
of 3 minutes to send. It's not terribly slow... 

Save money. Make money. Save time. One tip on each, once a week.
"Just Business Tips" - For the person who's looking for results.
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