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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #64
                          Aug 20, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest       

 Sponsored by, Internet Marketing Specialists since 1994   (603)447-1024

Table of Contents

+ Ongoing

    "E-mail Discussion Lists"
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Moderator Reply

    "E-mail Address Question"
       - Mark Grimes
       - Gary Schwartz



From: Rainmaker 
Subject: E-mail Discussion Lists

At 04:50 PM 8/19/97, you wrote:
Dear Santa (a/k/a Gary ):

So now I know what you do :-).

>If you subscribe to 82 lists and participate in each I'd say
>you pretty much have the list-promotion angle covered.

I get approx 300 e-messages a day, and probable respond to 75-100
of them.    I am the "Partner-in-Charge of Reading E-mail".

>I am intrigued by your mention of guest moderation.  It's not a
>concept I have considered, but agree that it might have great value...
>offering a new slant on an 'old' subject by a simple means.  Hmmm...
>I might try that out on this list sometime.

It works very well.  You get a different slant on things, and
members get a different perspective.  Especially great when you
travel or are on vacation.  Let me know, I'll volunteer.

On two lists we are trying something new.  We are offering
discounted services to list members, and, on one list, we are
posting links on each other's sites.  For example, we offer
Automated Press Releases to 7,600+ media contacts in 256 business
categories in 37 countries.  On one list we just started offering
that service to members at a discounted rate, and the members can
become a reseller, with a link to us.  The list owner and I are
working on it first to get the kinks out, then we open it up to
the members.

>It's true, I don't push myself or my services on this list or on
>the List Exchange Digest...

Tsk, tsk, tsk.  At least on Adam Boettiger's lists he interjects
comments every so often, and directs folks to their site.

There is no need to self-promote, but you should let folks know
what you do.  Let's face it, you are doing a great job with this
and List Exchange, and you should do some promotion.

>I agree that your first two list types (moderated digests and
>live moderated) seem to be the most 'valuable' to the list owner.
>The third (unmoderated free for all) can be fun - many hobby lists
>are like this and carry a great deal of traffic each day - but the
>list owner rarely gets more than a pat on the back for their
>effort.  The fourth type (newsletter) can be very effective as a
>tool for positioning, but it takes a higher level of dedication
>and more hours from your day to self-publish a regular newsletter
>than it does to moderate types one or two.
I agree.  You have Market-L listed at your site.  That's a
business site, and a free-for all.  Lot's of fun.  Sometimes you
get killed (like my post this morning about "Prisoner's Rights").
 They are a great source of information and assistance.

>>A successful list has to direct
>>members back to the owner's site to be effective.  Or a
>>successful list has to be a win-win situation for all members,
>>i.e., referral source, joint projects, etc.
>I think this is where I have not made the necessary efforts.  Sure,
>there is a pointer to the site and the archives at the end of each

So point to the pointer!

>Your final question...
>>"Is there a real Santa Claus?"
>...made me smile a bit.  Lots of folks think that the internet is
>Santa Claus and that if they only get a website up, customers will
>flock to buy their wares.  Sadly, as I'm sure you know, this is not
>the case.  Just like any other business you have to work hard to
>make an online venture pay off.  I feel that the early rush to the
>web, and the subsequent non-response experienced by many of these
>early buyers of web development services, has hurt today's internet
>development business.  Too many html writers sold sites without
>any marketing backup...  too many people got burned by this
>practice.  It will be some time before many try a second website.

Amen.  I see you use the "Field of Dreams" fallacy as do I when
talking about the Net.  The problem is everybody wants instant
gratification.  On one of my lists we are discussing the roles of
folks in Web development -- marketing, admin, coder, promotion,
etc.  Interesting how a lot of these functions are neglected.

>Just for kicks, here is my regular .sig.  Who knows...  maybe I'll
>gain some customers by using here it more often.  
Well, I know I visited your site.  Surprised to see Ridgewood NJ,
about 10 miles up the road from me.

So, Santa, I guess we are in agreement, eh ?

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases:
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.

                 ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


>>... guest moderation.
>It works very well.  You get a different slant on things, and
>members get a different perspective.  Especially great when you
>travel or are on vacation.  Let me know, I'll volunteer.

Since I plan a three week roadtrip vacation to my winter residence
this year you just might find yourself on the 'A list' sooner than
you thought.  Sometime around the end of October is the current
planned departure date.  Are there any other members of this list
interested in taking a short stint at moderation?  It might be
interesting to pass the torch around a little bit.

>On two lists we are trying something new.  We are offering
>discounted services to list members, and, on one list, we are
>posting links on each other's sites.

I would be interested in how much response is generated by
discounting services to list members.  I would also be interested
to know if members of this list would be interested in creating a
'discount pool' where we could all offer discounts to each other.

>On one of my lists we are discussing the roles of
>folks in Web development -- marketing, admin, coder, promotion,
>etc.  Interesting how a lot of these functions are neglected.

The nature of the internet fosters the one-man enterpreneur and
the Mom-n-Pop operation.  This is, for the most part, a good thing,
but there are those who have jumped on the internet development
bandwagon without thought to the number of hats they will have to
wear to get the job done right.  At I do all the
coding and online marketing and promotion of our client sites.
My partner handles sales, media buys and client contacts while we
share administrative duties and creative brainstorming.  We are
pretty much minimalists when it comes to operating staff - cost
containment takes precedence over time management.  I work a lot
of nights as a result, but I'm not complaining...  it is my choice
to do what I do and I would not change a thing.

>I visited your site.  Surprised to see Ridgewood NJ,
>about 10 miles up the road from me.

Yeah, I do get around.   The Ridgewood site  is a partnership with some
local marketing/sales people in that town. We have hoped to
build a high traffic community site where we could eventually
sell advertising.  This strategy was employed by my partner
and myself when we created JourneysNorth's Original Guide to
the Mt. Washington Valley , a
4-season resort area where I live half of the year.
JourneysNorth benefitted from it's resort nature, gaining
regular visitors in short order and becoming an income-generating
vehicle within months of it's inception.  We're not sure that
a non-tourist community can  create the draw that JN did.
Only time will tell.

BTW - We sold JourneysNorth in 1996, focusing on internet
marketing rather than internet publishing.  There was too
much local competition  for us to maintain our interest.


    Gary K. Foote       
    Internet Marketing, Since 1994

    The List Exchange Digest - Discussing List Owners Issues
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           ***  NEW POST - E-mail Address Question  ***

From: e/y/e/s/c/r/e/a/m - mark grimes 
Subject: E-mail address question

Klaus asked....
>How can I check out to which countries the addresses on the
>subscriber's list are related to?
list the countries and domain extensions
numbers of list servers in countries
various international NIC type places to get domains


Mark Grimes 		  			  	 503/614-0705 telephone
mailto:       503/614-2026 facsimile
  Traffic Building, Strategic Partnering, New Media Planning
    Killer Creative and Design That Will Make You Scream
 				   Portland, Oregon USA
--------------------< >---------------------

           ***  NEW POST - E-mail Address Question  ***

From: Gary Schwartz 
Subject: Re: email address question

Klaus Arnhold  asked:
"How can I check out to which countries the addresses on the
subscriber's list are related to?"

There are clues in the address that can tell you from where the
email originated.  Your address ends in .de, which indicates that
your domain is registered in Germany.  Similarly, there is a list
of two-letter "top-level domains" for each country.  So, for those
addresses, it's pretty straightforward for you to figure out where
they came from.

Of course, things aren't all that simple.  There are a handful of
top-level domains whose use precedes the use of country domains.
These are the .com, .org, .net, .gov, .edu, .mil (am I forgetting
any?) domains that were the original top-level domains on the
internet.  While these were originally used for domains in the USA
(and .edu, .mil and .gov most likely still are), the others can
be registered by anyone anywhere.

The best way to see where the owner of the domain name resides is
to query the interNIC's whois database, which you can do by accessing
the following URL:

You will want to replace the domain with the domain you're
looking up.  Be sure to specify only the second level domain - if
you look up, you'll get no match.

This will give you the address of the company, and the names of its
technical, administrative, and billing contacts.

Hope this helps,


Gary Schwartz               
Strategic Planning Manager
4CAST Limited
191 Victoria Street                               tel: +44 (0)171 963 6033
London SW1E 5NE                                   fax: +44 (0)171 963 6001

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