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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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603-392-0090

                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #74
                     Copyright, Webbers.com
                          Sept 9, 1997
                     ----------------------
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator
                   mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com

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Table of Contents

+ New Subjects

    "On Opt-in E-mail"
       - Sharon Tucci
       - Moderator's Comment

+ Ongoing

    "Browser Wars"
       - Robert Smith
       - Moderator's Comment
       - Claudia Hafling
       - Moderator's Comment
       - Alex Ingerman
       - Moderator's Comment
       - Jose Camilo Daccach T.

    "On Bulk E-mail"
       - Claudia Hafling

    "IEMMC"
       - Bob Rankin

---------------------------------------------------------------------

                      --------------------
                          New Subjects
                      --------------------


From: Sharon Tucci 
Subject: Opt-In Email
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As our own way of contributing to cutting down on SPAM, we started an
opt-in mailing list (mailto:majordomo@info-4-you.com with "subscribe
busopp" in msg body) for people who WANT to receive information on
business opportunities.  Surprisingly, there seems to be a greater
interest from people to join the list than from advertisers thus far.
(We are up to just over 500 subscribers with no promotion other than
a mention in our own two newsletters.) We had thought with so much
spam being on "business opportunities" that the demand was there. But
it seems that those who spam prefer to spam rather than pay a couple
of bucks to be sure and target people actually interested.

Sharon Tucci

/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\/$\
                     All About Biz
Practical how-to business advice for the budding entrepreneur.

To subscribe, send an email to: mailto:majordomo@allaboutbiz.com
with "subscribe biz" in the message body.
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                     ***  [Moderator's Comment]  ***

At first glance this phenomenon seems strange, but with a little
thinking it all made sense to me.  Bulk Spammers, by their very nature,
are looking for something for nothing.  And, they must be getting it
because they are still around.  Also, why would they pay $30.00 CPM
to reach targeted prospects when they can reach 1,000,000 (admittedly
non-targeted) for $79.95?

can anyone come up with some strategies to reach these people and
convince them of the greater long-term value of the paid ad approach?

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote                 mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com
    Internet Marketing Since 1994     http://www.webbers.com
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

       ~ Author of "Ethical, Proactive E-mail Marketing" ~
           http://www.webbers.com/emark/emailmar.html
    --------------------------------------------------------


                      --------------------
                             Ongoing
                      --------------------


From: Robert Smith 
Subject: Is there a major shift coming that will see IME as the

"Should web designers continue to design sites primarily for
Netscape  or is there a major shift coming that will see IME as the
big winner? "

Perhaps Microsoft can buy the browser market, They haven't been able
to buy the on-line market.  MSN  is still not the biggest despite
the millions,

Bill Gates is very clear about what it takes to win in any market.
Bottom line you have to be the best.  Internet explorer is very good
now, If Microsoft can produce a better browser some day I may
switch, but  not while the vast majority of users are still  using
Netscape.

The learning curve is what's keeping many from the switch now but
with the majority of new users getting Interner Explorer free with
their computers this is bound to change somewhat.

When I look at my stats I still see 80% Netscape users visiting my
site.

I think the war will be won by the company offering the fewest new
user problems and the best  technical support.

Whichever browser wins can not affect any *good* designers as we
must design for every browser.  The  most important aspect of
graphic design has always been simplicity,  I am a member of several
design  newsletters and discussion groups.  It seems 90% of the
discussions are about trying to do more  complex things that are
not supported by all browsers. I just say " Don't do that".

Bob
A Seed Gives Birth to Fruit of it's Own Kind

The Internet Marketer's Resource Site
http://www.arrowweb.com/graphics/design/
-----------------------------------------
Robert Smith  Web Site Design & Promotion
 *  2606 Summer Lane Eugene OR 97404  *
Mailto: sfeinc@continet.com (541) 689-1847

Subscribe to the Internet Marketing Newsletter:
http://www.arrowweb.com/graphics/free/subscribe.html


               ***  [Moderator's Comment]  ***

I agree wholeheartedly with you re: keeping designs simple.  So
many of my clients thought they should have streaming video, slide
shows, animations, javascript, etc.  Once they realized how that
would affect download speeds and how *that* would affect page views
most of them came around.  Those that didn't have gone elsewhere
and had their huge sites designed by a $$$ designer, not a web
designer.

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote                 mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com
    Internet Marketing Since 1994     http://www.webbers.com
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

       ~ Author of "Ethical, Proactive E-mail Marketing" ~
           http://www.webbers.com/emark/emailmar.html
    --------------------------------------------------------


               ***  NEW POST - Browser Wars  ***


From: Claudia Hafling <102440.51@compuserve.com>
Subject: The E-Marketing Digest, V2, #73

-------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------

Message text written by INTERNET:e-mark@buck.ncia.net

"The deal also means that Bill Gates now has cornered 100% of the
computer market...  after all, there aren't any other players out
there with a significant market share...  just Apple and Microsoft.

I wonder that the U.S. Justice Department has not stepped in to
prevent a monopoly on the industry.  "


-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

Dear Gary:

I thought I heard on the news the other night that the Justice Dept.
had announced it was going to examine the Microsoft-Apple deal to
see if it constituted a monopoly and thus violated federal anti-
trust statutes.  I thought the deal was not yet solid because of
that.

Anybody else hear this?

-Claudia


               ***  [Moderator's Comment]  ***


Three cheers for the Justice Department.  I shudder when I think
of Bill Gates 'in charge' of all those desktops around the world...
too much control over software, and software will eventually come to
be at the heart of most of the everyday activities and automated
processes that make the world go 'round.

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote                 mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com
    Internet Marketing Since 1994     http://www.webbers.com
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

       ~ Author of "Ethical, Proactive E-mail Marketing" ~
           http://www.webbers.com/emark/emailmar.html
    --------------------------------------------------------


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               ***  NEW POST - Browser Wars  ***


From: nwres203@wolfenet.com
Subject: re: microsoft + apple

Hello, Gary,

I've been lurking on the list for quite awhile, but I think this is my
first post. I have been doing a lot of research on MS/Apple deal, and...
well, wow, someone actually cares for what I have to say :-)

>I have been thinking about the recent purchase - by Bill Gates - of
>150 million dollars of Apple stock, and what the details of the deal
>really mean.  A part of the package is that Apple will bundle
>Microsoft Internet Explorer with it's computers.  This alone gives
>Microsoft a huge leg up in the browser war with Jim Barkdale's
>product, Netscape.  I wonder how long Netscape will lead the browser
>war now?

Netscape doesnt't lead a browser war. They are in a defense position against
the neverending force of Microsoft power and money. They have long given up
on trying to make netscape THE browser for online experience, now they
concentrate on getting organizations to buy it for corporatewide use. Right
now, they still have a lead ahead of MS in security measures (no activeX/
fairly good java) as well as plain old operability. When Microsoft pushes
IE 4 with all the push technology (no pun intended), AND gets the internet
community to shut up and let it take over their computers, Netscape
Navigator marketing will suffer a lot. NS is already restructuring to put
more and more effort on server-side products, and I even have a notion
that Navigator might be sold after its 4th version hits the *mass* market
(very, very soon), and will inevetably beated by IE 4.

>
>The deal also means that Bill Gates now has cornered 100% of the
>computer market...  after all, there aren't any other players out
>there with a significant market share...  just Apple and Microsoft.

I dont understand this statement. What do you mean by "computer market"?
Microsoft is a software-only company (well, besides some minor techno-toys),
Apple is a hardware maker. To say that Bill Gates will try to invade Claris
and Adobe's Mac platform is foolish, (1) Microsoft will destroy Apple
eventually and (2) Most Mac users these days are Mac addicts who will die
before buying a Microsoft product that they dont already own. Microsoft
Office for Mac is MS's good cash cow, it makes a certain predictable sum
of money each year, and that alone will take care of $150 M invested. They
will keep it around for a few years, and drop it when they feel like it.
They win either way.

>
>I wonder that the U.S. Justice Department has not stepped in to
>prevent a monopoly on the industry.  This is something I have seen
>them do in the past, not necessarily in the computer industry, but
>in one with much less impact on the world... the ski industry.  Just
>last year they ordered Les Otten to sell Mt. Cranmore and Waterville
>Valley (two major ski areas in New Hampshire) because he was beginning
>to control too much of the industry in this state.  If the Justice
>Department is concerned about a monopoly on the ski industry, wouldn't
>you think a monopoly in the computer industry would be of even greater
>interest to them?

Quite, on contrary, one of the major reasons Microsoft bought Apple stock
is to get rid of antitrust lawsuits. Now they are the good guys, helping
a "competitor" survive in a big computer world. This alone was worth $150 M
wasted as well. And as a bonus, Apple will drop all these nasty lawsuits
against Microsoft stealing their technologies and interfaces. Wow, Microsoft
wins again (surprise!)

>
>Anyway...  my question is this;
>
>"Should web designers continue to design sites primarily for Netscape
>or is there a major shift coming that will see IME as the big winner?

This is a very good question. I am a web designer, and here is my
personal philosophy:

I design for Internet Explorer 3, but it does not go up until it looks
good in Netscape 2. This is the absolute bottom line. I also use some
tricks to make the thing at least recognizable in a text-only browser,
or one with images turned off, but I dont sweat over it

It also depends on the kind of people who visit a particular site. For
a unix wiz site to use a VBSCRIPT or  (2 of the major IExplorisms)
is like for porshe to put their engines into Toyota bodies. Sure, its a
lot roomier and has a larger trunk and all, but would you buy one? Then
again,
for one travel site I run, the logs show a 86% usage of IE3. So you will not
see me re-optimizing it for Netscape anytime soon.


>
>And...  are there any other consequences of this deal that will affect
>net marketers in the future?

One I could think of is the fact that MS currently accepts applications
for its push channels. I think that web developers should jump at this
opportunity and do it before they do their channel with Netscape, which,
I believe, solicits similar offers.

Alex

Alex Ingerman   AI Enterprises   mailto:nwres203@wolfenet.com

Website Design, Implementation and Programming. Databases, Intranets,
Video, VRML, Independent Site Evaluations, we do it all. Other services
include Desktop Publishing, Text Conversion, and more. If we don't know
it, we will learn it, e-mail us today for any and all inquiries!


               ***  [Moderator's Comments]  ***


It's interesting to note that Netscape and Sun systems (Java inventors)
have partnered to keep Netscape/Java technology ahead of MIE.  Sun was
left out of the recent deal and it is as clear as the nose on my face...
MS intends to write their own Java implementations into future MIE
releases, thus getting a 'personal' hold on yet another facet of
internet technology.  IMHO, if BG could have it all under his roof
he would still not be happy.

You wrote;

>And as a bonus, Apple will drop all these nasty lawsuits
>against Microsoft stealing their technologies and interfaces.

I thought that Apple had lost their 7-year suit and was only
'considering' another when Steve Jobs came back, saying,
"...been there, done that...", and called BG directly to open
communications.

You also wrote;

>I design for Internet Explorer 3, but it does not go up until it looks
>good in Netscape 2.

This is good practice.  Designing for a single browser will generally
assure you that your site(s) will not look the same in others.  Does
anyone know of a resource for comparing the final layout pages online
without changing browsers in the process?

finally, you wrote;

>One I could think of is the fact that MS currently accepts applications
>for its push channels. I think that web developers should jump at this
>opportunity and do it before they do their channel with Netscape, which,
>I believe, solicits similar offers.

Can you elucidate on this for those of us not familiar with the technology?

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote                 mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com
    Internet Marketing Since 1994     http://www.webbers.com
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

       ~ Author of "Ethical, Proactive E-mail Marketing" ~
           http://www.webbers.com/emark/emailmar.html
    --------------------------------------------------------


               ***  NEW POST - Browser Wars  ***


From: "Jose Camilo Daccach T." 
Subject: Designing for Netscape

Gary:

Thanks for a great newsletter and great moderating.....

On your question:

"Should web designers continue to design sites primarily for Netscape
or is there a major shift coming that will see IME as the big winner?


IMHO Web Designers shoud desing sites primarily for NO specific
browser.  This is to say, that the design should be compatible with
whatever browser the user decides to use.  I believe it is not up to the
web designer to dictate the browser the client uses.  By being browser
specific you single out an entire portion of your target market.  How big
is that portion, that is another questio, but it would be irrelevant if your
site was open to any browser.

On the other hand, Microsoft has "the pot by the handle" while bundling
the MIE with the operating system and other marketing venues.  Besides
it's free (for now).  From my own experience, I started using MIE not from
a very technical and structured decision making process, but because
it was in the system I bought.  If I am part of the target market that a Web
desinger is aiming only with a Netscape enabled site, his client would loose
my potential business.

Sincerely,

Jose
_________________________________________________________
    Jose Camilo Daccach T.      mailto:jocada@ibm.net
      Asesor Externo                (Independent Consultant)
  Calle 8 No. 2N-47 Of.401 Cali, Colombia. South America
     Tel: +57 2 667 4820         Cel: 93 551 5917
_________________________________________________________



               ***  NEW POST - On Bulk E-mail  ***


From: Claudia Hafling <102440.51@compuserve.com>
Subject:

-------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------

Message text written by INTERNET:e-mark@buck.ncia.net

""Bulk-Email" marketing, on the other hand, is something I accept
as part of being a member of the Online community. "


-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

Yes, you accept it and I accept it but there are others out there
who don't, who raise holy hell at every single unsolicited message
that finds its way into their email boxes.  It is this very vocal
minority who is trying to screw up legitimate e-commerce for the
rest of us.  We can't just deny that they are out there, by saying
junk e-mail is something you accept just like you accept junkmail
in your snailmailbox.

-Claudia Hafling


               ***  NEW POST - IEMMC  ***


From: Bob Rankin 
Subject: Re: IEMMC

>But just like I can put a sign on my mailbox saying "No Junk Mail",
>there is now a way to put a sign on my e-mailbox saying
>"No Junk E-mail". (IEMMC global filtration site)

Oh dear, I hope nobody here has fallen for the IEMMC scam.  The IEMMC is
operated by a notorious consortium of spammers, and there is widespread
evidence that requesting to be put on their NO SPAM list will in fact
increase your spam level.  It appears they are just using that ruse to
collect validated e-mail addresses for spam fodder.

Regards,
Bob Rankin

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