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The eMarketing Digest
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Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #88
                     Copyright, Webbers.com
                        October 9, 1997
                     ----------------------
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

                  This Week's Guest Moderator

                       George Matyjewicz
                   of GAP Enterprises, LTD.
                   

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Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

	-  Guest Moderator's comments

+ New Subjects

	-  Marketing Forums - What works best?
		-  George Matyjewicz
		-  Andrey Yastrebov
		-  Dave Thuillier

+ Ongoing

	-  Your "Elevator Speech"
		-  Nancy Roebke
		-  Guest Moderators Comments

	-  What do you want from E-Marketing?
		-  The **vacationing** Gary K. Foote
		-  Nancy Roebke
		-  Guest Moderators Comments

	-  Seeking Lists
		-  Ron S. La Vine

+ Questions of the Week

	-  Answer to last week's question

	-   How much time do you spend online each week
	     marketing your business?

	-  How long has  your company  been in business?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

                      --------------------
                      Moderator's Comments
                      --------------------

Hi all,

Some excellent posts in today's digest.  Should spur a lot of comments.

Some of you have asked about last week's answer to the Question
of The Week.  The answer was (and will be) posted on Monday.
Since a number of you missed it, we will continue the answer in
the digest through Friday of this week.

For those of you who want to take the helm of this fine list in
the future, send a note to Gary at
mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com?Subject=EMD GM Search">.

Your Guest Moderator,

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner                http://www.gapent.com/
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.        mailto:georgem@gapent.com
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.
_____________________________________________


                      --------------------
                          New Subjects
                      --------------------

+++++   Marketing Forums  - What works best? +++++

When clients ask what are the three most important ingredients to
a successful marketing campaign, we usually respond  - "promote,
promote and promote!"   What we are really saying is you need to
have your message (or your "Elevator Speech")  seen often and in
various forums.

With the Net, marketing forums take on a new meaning.  Or do
they?  We received a couple of posts today, that got me to ask
today's question....

"What marketing methods  do you use, how often and are they effective?"


George Matyjewicz


+++++  First Post   +++++

From: "Andrey B. Yastrebov" 
Subject: Repeated advertising

Probably repetition  should work for advertising. I guess two
consecutive ads will work better than a single ad sent to  twice
as many people. So, repeated e-mail advertising would work better
than single sendings. Does somebody have some experience in
repeated advertising?  How many times is best - two, three? Has
somebody heard of some investigations on that subject?


+++++ [Guest Moderator's Comments] +++++

This is very good question, and I would like to hear comments
from list members.  We often hear comments like "I place an
ad.... " or "I posted to search engines... " or "I submitted a
press release...." with the same ending statement - "... and got nothing."


+++++  Same Topic -  Post #2   +++++

From: dreamer 
Subject: How to get a mailing list off the ground

This is a question for all the mailing list owners out there. I
have just started to promote a mailing list from my site where
people can subscribe and post to purchase or sell used games. I
have been  getting subscribers to sign up which is great! The
only problem is  that the first issue is due out and I haven't
received any posts  from the subscribers to place on the list.
Any suggestions as to what  would be appropriate in this case?

*Do I send out a note letting them know I have received no posts?
*Do I post "for sale" inventory from my store as the only post?
*Do I skip sending out a newsletter and wait for the next issue
due date? (I promised to only send out to the list twice a month.)
*Do I have any other options?

I don't want to lose any subscribers by appearing to post "just"
my  store's used inventory on the first issue. I honestly want
this list to self sustain with posts from the subscribers. I feel
that my footer  (along with an occasional post) will be enough to
gain additional  business.

   Dave Thuillier
   Owner, Dreamer's Den   mailto:dreamers_den@conknet.com

   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   http://www.conknet.com/~dreamers_den/
   Retailer :Collectable Card Games, Models & Hobby Materials,
   Role Playing Games, Unique Tee Shirts, Fantasy & Sci-FI Books,
   Audio Books, Quantity  Discounts available
_____________________________________________

                      --------------------
                            Ongoing
                      --------------------

+++++  Your "Elevator Speech"  +++++

The original question posted by your Guest Moderator was (snipped) ...

"You are at the Empire State Building in NYC about to enter an
elevator going to the 62nd floor, and a prospect that you have
been trying to meet gets on with you.  You are alone on the
elevator.  What are you going to tell that prospect to convince
him to buy from you?"

+++++ Reply  +++++

From: Nancy Roebke 
Organization: Profnet, Inc.

Ok, George, knock it off!! Just kidding..you said I could say
that... ANYWAY, I am probably going to go against the crowd here
with what *I* think should be said and done if I get stuck in an
elevator...But here goes..

I am a strong proponent of building relationships FIRST before
trying to sell anyone anything. So my approach would first be to
get as much information about my elevator-mate's firm as I could.
I have 10 questions I use as a basis for this type of
conversation. They are available by autoresponder at
mailto:icebreakers@just-business.com. They are called Ice
Breaking Questions and I use them to get information from prospective clients.

The information I want to get, will tell me how I can help the
prospect. That's right. The questions are designed to TELL ME (in
the prospects own words from the prospects own lips) how I can
help their firm. (These questions are just as effective in an
e-mail conversation as they are in real life, by the way.)

So, my elevator conversation to get you to do business with me,
would be "So tell me, how would I know that someone I was
speaking with would be a good client for you so I could refer you
more business?". You would do most of the rest of the talking.

Nancy Roebke
ExecDirector@Profnet.Org
--
Learn to Network!
Increase income, cut costs, and put an end to cold calling.
Get our FREE series of articles that teach you the secrets
of successful networking.  mailto:files@ProfNet.org Today!

ProfNet,Inc  ExecDirector@Profnet.Org    http://www.ProfNet.org


+++++ [Guest Moderator's Comments] +++++

You're not going to get any arguments from me.  My point to an
"Elevator Speech" is to have a company focus on that one thing
that they do best.  When I mentioned "that prospect that you have
been trying to talk to," I meant you went through the research
needed to know the company and the prospect.

Keep in mind, you are not getting a chance to build a
relationship ahead of time, because I wont let you.  So, you need
to convince me that it makes sense for my firm to consider using
your services.  Of course, sense you learned all about my firm,
you will know what to say in that elevator ride ;-}.

BTW, Nancy brings up an interesting point.  You should have an
"Elevator Speech" or a "3 minute commercial" that tells what you
do, **and** you should have a tailored "Elevator Speech" for that
specific target that you researched using Nancy's "Ice Breaking Questions."

_____________________________________________


+++++   Next Topic -  What do you want from E-Marketing?   +++++

The original question posted by your Guest Moderator was (snipped) ...

"So, I want to ask some of the members of this list, who may not
have posted in the past.  What are you trying to get from this
list, and from the members, and are we satisfying your needs?"


+++++  First Response   +++++


From:  The vacationing Gary K. Foote  

Rev. Keith Londrie II wrote;

>I subscribed to E-Marketing because I thought we were going to
>discuss the  different ways to market by E-Mail...
[snip]
>...I would  actually like to see more of this going on.
[snip]
>In the past there has been a lot of discussion, not only on
>E-Marketing, but  on many other lists as well, on the subject of
>spam. I say Enough!

Hi Keith,

I understand what you are saying.  When this list was first
begun it's focus was on e-mail marketing...  period.  The
fact is, that e-mail marketing, though it is a subject with
many facets, seems not deep enough to carry a list by itself.
My decision, a couple of months ago, to widen the scope of
conversation on this list was a direct response to a
languishing discussion group.

The problem was, just as you described in your post,
it kept coming down to a discussion about spam, and
everyone was getting pretty tired of this common wasted
bandwidth on every list (or so it seemed at the time).

The second problem was that focusing solely on e-mail
marketing left out all of the other supporting marketing
methods/issues (web, newsgroups, software trends, etc)
that should be considered in any full fledged online
campaign.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this up, Keith - enough
with my explanations and on with the improvements.
The subject of E-mail Marketing is once again thrown
wide open in this forum.  Let's just please avoid spam
arguments and instead have some fruitful conceptualizing
about effective e-mail marketing methods.

>If more people posted actual question type posts, I would guess
>other would  chime in and reply...

I have to agree with you 100%, Keith.  Consider the
'E-Marketing Answer Bureau' open for business.  We are
all here both to ask and to answer questions.  Nobody knows
every facet of this business...  heck, the business is changing
so fast that I suspect that it is communities like this one
at E-Marketing that are forming the guidelines that future
marketers will refer to as 'gospel'.

Then---

Andrey Yastrebov  wrote;

>...ask if somebody tried using BusinessLink MarketPlace as
> an opt-in list or have heard about somebody using them.
>
>...They build their list by offering weekly drawings for
> Pentium computer, so these 600,000 came to win, not
>to read ads, but chances are some of them will read them.

Andrey,

These lists might reach a large number of people, but they
certainly are not a targeted group.  If your product or
service has wide appeal, then this type of 'scattergun'
ad might be effective.  If you are trying to reach a
narrower market, then you would be better served seeking
better targeting.

Just my $.02

    The vacationing,

    Gary K. Foote               
    Internet Marketing Since 1994   
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

        ~ Author of "Ethical, Targeted E-mail Marketing" ~
          
    --------------------------------------------------------

+++++ [Guest Moderator's Comments] +++++

Vacationing?   Amazing how folks can't seem to go on vacation
without a laptop .

George


+++++  Same Topic -  Post #2   +++++

> Paul Myers commented...

>Nancy Roebke did an article on getting started on lists that
>I think would be great for people who are in this situation.

From: Nancy Roebke 
Organization: Profnet, Inc.
Subject: Tips for List Newbies

I have written the following article that addresses a way of
getting comfortable posting to lists based on my own personal
experiences. Hopefully this will be helpful to some.

Networking in public forums has it's challenges with how to get
into the small groups that tend to form within the large group.
One of the best ways is to have someone help you with
introductions. What do you do when the same thing happens to you
on a list where there is no in-person contact and no "gatekeeper"
to make a way for you?

Here's what happened to me on the very first list I joined with
the very first post I made. I posted to a list on a controversial
topic that had come up. My post reflected very personal material
and involved using a member of my family as an example of why I
felt the way I did. I got a response back from one member of the
list saying I should run quickly from my opinions and that the
member of my family was a "lunatic" for expressing the same
sentiments. This response was posted to the list and not to me
privately. I was embarrassed, surprised, humiliated, confused-
you name it, I felt it.

That was seven months ago. I am now considered one of the "old"
list members, my name is recognized by most list participants, I
have gotten business and right now sit on the Board for a major
project that is underway on that list. I had all I could do when
that post came out seven months ago, not to walk away from that
list and all other lists because of that one response.

How did the change occur? Here are the steps I took to get from
that post to reaping the benefits of list participation:

1. I sent a private post to the sender of the offending post. She
never responded.

2. I received several private posts about how unkind the post
from the other member was and I responded with "Thank You"'s to
all of them. In those posts, I asked questions about the
businesses of the people sending me these kind posts and began to
build relationships with them.

3. I never posted a rebuttal publicly on the list. Many people
did , and I also would respond privately to them and ask about their business.

4. I waited a while.. probably a month or two before posting
again.. and this time I picked a topic that I knew a lot about
and positioned myself as the expert in that field. I got a few
responses and always posted responses publicly that would help
THE GROUP MEMBERS.

5. During my waiting period I sent Virtual Postcards to everyone
who introduced themselves, welcoming them to the group and
offering myself  to them as a friendly ear if they needed it. In
these postcards, I also asked for info about their businesses.
This was one of THE best relationship-building tools I used.

6. I would post information I had found on the Internet that
might be of interest to the group. I also posted a few humorous
posts. These always got me private responses that I would also
answer in the manner above.  These mass, non-specific,
non-threatening posts were probably what started my name
recognition within the group.

7. I read posts from other members and when their opinions or
presentations mirrored my own, I would send a private response of
encouragement to them. I was building a circle of like-minded
individuals . These individuals also only posted to the list with
similar information to mine. I noticed that over time as I read their posts.

8. From this work, I was invited to join the Board of a
significant project underway from this list. This was a direct
result of the responses I made to the like-minded members of the group.

9. I did not get involved in any controversy or flaming on the
list- not even to make an "enough is enough" post about it, even
when I felt that way.

10. To this day, I only post to the list with general info or on
a topic I know a lot about. The rewards from the list from my
behind-the-scenes work more than make up for the rude welcome I
received from one member.

The answer to the challenge is in the relationship-building steps
that are taken. A list has a lot of appeal because of the volume
of people you have exposure to. But the chances of building
relationships with all those people are slim and none. The
chances of building relationships with a person, one person at a
time are very real, and well worth the effort it takes to do so.
--

Nancy Roebke
ExecDirector@Profnet.Org
--
Learn to Network!
Increase income, cut costs, and put an end to cold calling.
Get our FREE series of articles that teach you the secrets
of successful networking.  mailto:files@ProfNet.org Today!

ProfNet,Inc  ExecDirector@Profnet.Org    http://www.ProfNet.org


+++++ [Guest Moderator's Comments] +++++

Wow!  Paul was right.  An excellent post, and great hints for
**anybody** on a newslist.  Nothing destroys a list more than the
flames and  negative responses from obnoxious or pompous list
members.  Unfortunately, on unmoderated lists, they cannot be
controlled.  Most people try ignoring the flames, but Nancy's
approach appears to be a more positive way to control negativity.

May I use this posting on some other lists?

George


+++++  Next Topic - Looking for lists  +++++

>From: "Ron S. La Vine, MBA" 
>Subject: Looking for Lists

>I'm looking for a list of business related e-mail newsletters. Is
>anyone aware of such a list?  Thanks.
__________________________________________
Note from Guest Moderator:  Looks like Ron found some.
__________________________________________

From: "Ron S. La Vine, MBA" 
Subject: Free Business Oriented Newsletters & Services - Part 2

1. Sales Intelligence Report E-mail Newsletter (SIREN)
Focus: Sales reps who do business with Fortune 1000 companies.
Visit:   http://www.intellworks.com/free-newsletter/newsletter.html  or
mailto:intellworks@earthlink.net with your e-mail address, name, title,
organization and the word SUBSCRIBE in the subject line.

2. Direct Marketing News....  A moderated (by Gary K. Foote),
daily-digest mailing-list to assist businesses in their direct
marketing efforts - http://www.webbers.com/emark   Also,  the
List Exchange  http://www.listex.com  moderated by Gary.

3. The Mike Enlow Letter - Technology Marketing News  enlow@enlow.com

4. admin@ezpro.com Subject: Welcome to EZPRo World Digest
The Ultimate E-Zine with something for everyone.

5. ejournal@emailhost.com Subject: GroupWeb eJournal Supplement
http://www.groupweb.com/your/ejournal.htm

6.   Guerrilla Computing's family of
electronic publications.

7. I-Sales@gs2.revnet.co Subject: Welcome to the I-Sales Discussion List.
John Audette Moderator Internet-Sales Discussion List

8. Welcome to iconocast - Each week, ICONOCAST delivers Web marketing news,
research, analysis and a lot more, directly to your mailbox.

9. Subject: Welcome to info-mislnews - ISL News - The Information
SuperLibrary Newsletter   http://www.SuperLibrary.com/general/news
Filled with interesting articles and features by Macmillan authors and
staff  writers, ISL News is a great place to hear the latest buzz in the
entertainment  and publishing world.

 10. To receive your Free September Internet Marketing Tips newsletter,
e-mail us at bkeiffer@natlcard.com. In subject area write
"send newsletter." We will e-mail it right out.

Ron S. La Vine, MBA, President, The IntellWorks
mailto:intellworks@earthlink.net
Phone: 818-716-5030    Fax: 818-716-0575   Voice Mail: 800-975-1724  Phone
TIPs for Success Telemarketer - Telesales Training -
http://www.intellworks.com
Sales & Marketing Telephone Research -
http://www.intellworks.com/sales-marketing-research
Software Sales Opportunity Telemarketer - Telesales Training -
http://www.intellworks.com/software-sales-training
Subscribe to our FREE Sales Intelligence Report E-Mail Newsletter:
http://www.intellworks.com/free-newsletter/newsletter.html

_____________________________________________


                      -------------------------------------------------------
                      Answer to Last Week's Question of the Week
                      ------------------------------------------------------

Many have asked that we continue with the answers to last week's
question.  So....


From: "Gary K. Foote" 
Subject: Question of the Week Results

Hi all,

Last week's Question of the Week, "How much $$$ does your
company spend on online and offline advertising each month?",
drew 40 responses from 600+ subscribers...  a 6.8% response
rate.  Not bad for the first Question of the Week.  Here is  the
response breakdown;

Under $100          23 respondents        57.5%
$100 - 500          11 respondents        27.5%
$500 - 1000          4 respondents        10%
$1,000+              2 respondents        5%

It's interesting to note that the majority are spending under
$100.   This says to me that there are a lot of folks out there
running  their own promotions rather than paying too much money
for outside  marketing or paid ad space.  This also says to me
that the majority  of businesses on this list are small businesses.

There are a total of 6 respondents spending over $500.  This is
15% of respondents...  a fair percentage.  I'd be interested in
hearing something about the ROI on these expenditures.  Anyone
care to share?

                      --------------------
                      Question of the Week
                      --------------------

Based on the results of last week's survey, let's ask two questions this week:

1.  How much time do you spend online each week marketing your business?

	[ ] less than 5 hours a week

	[ ] 5-10 hours

	[ ] 10-20 hours

	[ ] 20-40 hours

	[ ] over 40 hours


2.  How long has  your company  been in business?

	[ ] less than 6 months

	[ ] 6 months to one year

	[ ] 1-3 years

	[ ] 3-5 years

	[ ] Over 5 years

Please send all responses to the Digest address...
	
... by  5PM EST  (US)  on Friday, October 10, 1997.
Results will be posted  Monday, October 13, 1997.


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