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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #91
                     Copyright, Webbers.com
                        October 15, 1997
                     ----------------------
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

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Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

    "Question of the Week"

+ New Subjects

    "HTML Editors"
       - Claire Amundsen
       - Moderator's Comments

+ Ongoing

    "How Serious Are You About Your Net Business?"
       - Connie Barrett
       - Moderator's Comments
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Moderator's Comments

    "Last Week's Q of the Week"
       - Andrey B. Yastrebov

    "Breaking the Inexperience Barrier"
       - Randall "World Wide" Weber

    "US Trademark & Servicemark Registration"
       - George Matyjewicz

    "Marketing Success Part 3"
       - Gordon F. Currie
       - Moderator's Comment

    "Do Classifieds Work?
       - Brigitte Synesael

+ The Corkboard

    "Wanted: Leisurely Foodstuff & Wine Products"
       - Victor Shen

+ Question of the Week

    "Responses to Last Week's QotW"

    "This Week's Question"

---------------------------------------------------------------

                  --------------------
                  Moderator's Comments
                  --------------------


Hi All,

Well, in case you hadn't noticed today's issue is quite late.  I
just got my mailer going again after a long, frustrating day of
tracing down some problems that have been affecting my computer's
stability.  Any, here it is...  better late than never.

Also, I've received a number of e-mails about some missing choices
in the response section.  Many use personal contact most, while
others have mentioned web contact.  If you don't see your response
as a choice in this week's QotW, just write in the details.  I'll
include them in my tabulations.

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote               
    Internet Marketing, Since 1994  
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024
                       ~ Moderator of ~
    The E-Marketing Digest - Discussing Electronic Marketing
    The List Exchange Digest - Discussing List Owners Issues
    For Subscription Info:         
    --------------------------------------------------------


                  --------------------
                      New Subjects
                  --------------------


From: Claire Amundsen 
Subject: HTML Editors

Gary,

A few months ago, I was creating all my web pages in a combination of
notepad.exe and WP 5.1, yup, as a professional web master -- then I was
asked to evaluate a product for someone else.  The product is
Homesite (recently purchased by Allaire, makers of Cold Fusion,
http://www.allaire.com/). It is NOT WYSIWYG, you work directly in the
code.

The difference between working in notepad and working in Homesite?  In
Homesite, when I want to insert a graphic file in a page, I just drag
the file name from a directory list to the place in the displayed HTML
file where I want it to appear and voila!  The HTML code is there
complete with height and width tags.  Same for creating links, block the
text that you want to be the link, drag and drop the file you want to be
linked to and voila! The proper  tag is inserted.

It's a great program for everyone who creates web pages, but
particularly for those of us dinosaurs who like to get our claws dirty
by dipping them directly in code. ;)

And I have absolutely no affiliation with Nick Bradbury (the original
creator), nor Allaire Corporation.  I'm just one of their most ardent
converts.

Claire
 Web Master
 http://www.provenedge.com/
 Proven Edge: The One-Program Software Solution for Today's Small
Business


            ***  [Moderator's Comments]  ***


Claire,

I too like getting my 'claws dirty'.  I'm going to download a copy and
give it a test run.  I just installed Luckman's WebEdit Pro 2.0 this
morning.  I haven't had time to try it out yet...  heck, I haven't
had time to publish this issue before noontime!  I'll post a short
review here once I've written a few pages with it.

    Your Moderator,

    Gary K. Foote               
    Internet Marketing, Since 1994  
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024
                       ~ Moderator of ~
    The E-Marketing Digest - Discussing Electronic Marketing
    The List Exchange Digest - Discussing List Owners Issues
    For Subscription Info:         
    --------------------------------------------------------


                  --------------------
                        Ongoing
                  --------------------


From: Connie Barrett & Joyce Kaessinger 
Subject: Spending advertising money online

John Gerits wrote (most of excellent post snipped) So I would be
interested to hear why *you* spend so little on I-marketing? Is
it strictly not being able to afford it? Not sure which vehicles?
Not sure how to research which vehicles? Fear of not getting an
ROI (return on investment)? Fear of too few dollars to be chased?
Whatever the reason, lets hear them, and not to blast but to see
what all of us can come up with to overcome.

Thank you, John.  For me this is a timely question, as I am now planning
to borrow  money and expand my advertising efforts (from near zero to
something more).

So it's not strictly being unable to afford it. Not sure which vehicles
and how to research them, and fear or not getting a return well describe
my issues at present.  I know that there are consultants in this area,
and, following the saying, "In for a penny, in for a pound," I wouldn't
mind consulting with someone—except for this:

My dilemma is one which others on this list may share, this being the
nature of my site, which is New Age (not a term I like), metaphysical,
alternative healing.  Were I to hire a consultant, I would want him/her
to have some expertise in this area. I've been searching for such a
person, but haven't found one.

I welcome this thread, and look forward to other responses.

Regards,
Connie Barrett
Beyond the Rainbow
New Age Catalog    Holistic Resource
http://www.rainbowcrystal.com
rainbow@ulster.net


             ***  [Moderator's Comments]  ***

Connie,

I'll bet there are more than one consultant on this list who
might fit your requirements.  For those interested, please
e-mail Connie privately.

GKF


    ***  NEW POST - How Serious Are You About Your Net Business?  ***


From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: How Serious Are You?

>From: gerits@nijenrode.nl (John Gerits)
>Subject: How Serious Are You About Your Net Business?

I have done a major snip to John's excellent post and summarize
what I see are the issues (at least what I want to address)...

1.  Folks are not spending a lot on Net advertising

2.  Most are small businesses and have the same failure rate as
those who are off-line

3.  Failure can be attributed to a number of reasons, with
under-capitalization being one of them.

4.  Since the Net is so easy to get on, and since so much is
free, folks do not want, or do not believe they have to spend
money on marketing.  Rather there is that "pot of gold at the end
of the Net rainbow" (love that statement).

5.  Those seeking help for free go to free classifieds, free
newslists, free marketing help where they hope to make money by
offering their services (it is an endless no-win circle).

 >--------------º><º snipped   º><º-------------------
>Further, these are just thoughts, observation and no research has
>been done, but am I wrong? Also, I am not blasting this segment
>as I am active in offering assistance to this segment in other
>business forums.

No, you are not wrong.  In fact this is one of the best
assessments I have ever seen for why Net ventures fail.
Very well put.

>
>As one of the primary aims of this digest, or any other business
>digest, list, newsgroup is to help each other, the best thing is
>frank discussion, not beating around the bush. So I would be
>interested to hear why *you* spend so little on I-marketing? Is
>it strictly not being able to afford it? Not sure which vehicles?
>Not sure how to research which vehicles? Fear of not getting an
>ROI (return on investment)? Fear of too few dollars to be chased?
>Whatever the reason, lets hear them, and not to blast but to see
>what all of us can come up with to overcome.
>

In my experience, Netpreneurs have the following problems with these issues:

1.  They may budget for marketing or doing business, but then
spend it incorrectly (but this is true off-line).  It is not easy
for a new business to determine what works best, and there is
little room for error on  limited budget.  It takes experience or
trial and error.  We recently picked up a new client who was
quoted $4,000 by a PR firm to write one press release and send it
to 21 publications in Alabama and the cost was going to be
$4,000.  We wrote three versions of the release and sent it to
approx 1,500 media contacts for  $800.

2.  Lack of experience in critical areas, forces them to spend
money unwisely.  We recently  pointed somebody who wanted to
incorporate to use standard forms available from office supply
stores (or the Net, or the State) at a cost of $84, rather than
the $500 fee an attorney will charge.

3.  They believe the hype about the Net -- the "Field of Dreams"
fallacy - "Build it and they shall come."  They won't.  Not
unless you tell them where you are, why they should do business
with you, and that you will be around for awhile.

4.  If they get folks to their site, their message is unclear
(they need to hone their "Elevator Speech").  I reviewed a site
recently where they were offering free services and services that
they charged a fee.  They were in two columns on the home page.
Both series of offerings looked good. Why would anybody go to the
services for which there is a fee in this case?

5.  They do not know how to value their time or services.  This
issue has been knocked around on many lists I am on.  Somebody is
making $52k at a job, and thinks they can set up on the Net (or
off0line as a consultant) at $200 a day.  Makes sense.  $52k is
$1,00 a week or $200 a day.  Wrong! There is down time, promotion
time, overhead, etc, etc.  Instead of $52K as a base, calculate
your rates at $65k, which accounts for some overhead.  Then
calculate at 100 days a year (40% of you "work week").  So your
rates should be $650 a day.  Big difference from $200 a day, eh?
And that difference will help you from going broke!

We have been tracking the What's New sites for the past 7 months,
and hope to publish either a book or a "white paper" on the
success of these sites.  It is shocking and sickening to see
what's happening.

George
_______________________________________________
George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner                http://www.gapent.com/rainmaking/
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.        mailto:georgem@gapent.com
http://www.gapent.com
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases: http://www.gapent.com/pr/
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.


               ***  [Moderator's Comments]  ***

George,

Incisive commentary on a subject that is important to pay attention
to.  The problems that many net businesses have can be attributed to
their penchant for 'preaching to the choir' (business associates in
the same industry) instead of the congregation (potential customers).
Remember, find your *customer* and sell them your wares.  Trying to
sell to others in the same business you are in will have you spinning
your wheels and going nowhere.

GKF


           ***  NEW POST - Last Week's Q of the Week  ***


From: "Andrey B. Yastrebov" 
Subject: Young vs Old businesses

Moderator wrote:

> It was interesting to note that, with few exceptions,
> those who have been in business over 5 years are
> spending less than 5 hours in online marketing.  This says to
> me that one of two things is operating here...  or maybe both;
>
> 1) A business that has been in existence for 5 years or more
> already has a customer base in place and does not need as intensive
> a marketing effort as a younger business.
>
> 2) The longer a business is online, the less interested it's
> operators seem in internet marketing...  or the less time
> they have to put into it.

I think that 'young' businesses are mostly net-based businesses.
Businesses older than 5 yeras are not net-based because 5 years
ago nearly nobody had business on the Net. That's probably
why they pay less attention to the net activity.

Regards. Andrey.
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Andrey B. Yastrebov    E-mail: xor@aysoft.com |
|                        http://www.aysoft.com/ |
+-----------------------------------------------+


        ***  NEW POST - Breaking the Inexperience Barrier  ***


From: "Randall 'World Wide' Weber" 
Subject: re: getting started in the biz

>George also wrote the following in Friday's issue;
>
>>...I want to talk to somebody who has worked with
>>companies in my type of business,  preferably on
>>my side of the street!
>
>This is a common desire...  to work with someone who is already
>conversant with the activities at hand.  It only makes sense to
>want experience, yet this scenario makes it harder for those
>who are trying to break into a field to get their first 'break'.
>So, I ask all of you, "How did you break through that inexperience
>barrier and close your first business deal?"

Hello all,

I got started in this business working as a Graduate Research Assistant
while finishing an MA in Urban Affairs (my degree has little to do with
Internet Marketing). I took advantage of the resources for students and
those for employees at the University. As an employee I had access to the
computing support staff that students wouldn't usually have. I spent time
talking to the computer people and surfing on the high speed Internet access
in my office. I taught myself how to use the Internet and how to create web
pages.

BTW, I didn't start out doing this for academic or business reasons, but
rather to learn how to download games from the Internet. I had fully
intended to go into a career in public administration.

I soon realized that the Internet could be beneficial for the professors
that I worked for (dispite what you may have heard about academics being
very net saavy, these guys and gals weren't). I showed them the type of
resources that were available on-line and how to promote the program to
undergraduates around the world seeking to attend graduate school. I then
went from putting together grant proposals and doing grunt work to
conducting Internet research and developing a department web site.

What I had going for me was an existing relationship. I had their trust, so
they knew I could do what I said. Building a relationship with someone and
convincing them to give you a shot is the best way to do it. This will help
you build up a portfolio and some experience. You may have to do this for
free for community organizations or other groups that you may be involved
with. This could also mean volunteering to manage your company's Internet
efforts.

Once I had this experience under my belt, along with my years of retail
experience while in undergraduate school, I was able to get an entry-level
management job with an Internet retail company. I have since moved on to
work for one of their clients, an advertising agency.

Best wishes,
Randy

Randall "World Wide" Weber
Director of Internet Marketing and Development
Hoyt/Anthony and Associates
 

"ADVERTISING, DESIGN, and INTERNET MARKETING"


        ***  NEW POST - US Trademark & Servicemark Registration  ***


From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: US Trademark & Servicemark Registration

>From: "Ron S. La Vine, MBA" 
>Subject: Information on US Trademark & Servicemark Registration
>
>Having personally registered and received two U.S. servicemarks was a real
>challenge. First you need to understand the difference between a trademark
>(a symbol or style of writing used to mark products or goods being sold)
>and a servicemark (used to mark marketing documents or paperwork on
>services being sold).
>

We were searching for trademark information for a client, and
came across this site http://www.melito.com/

Dallas attorney Carl Melito wrote the guide.  I copied part of
the home page....

---------------------------------------------------------
....  Comprehensive Guide to U.S. and International Trademarks.
This guide is the first ever of its kind. My law firm was
retained by a leading Silicon Valley company to produce, in one
source, this step by step comprehensive guide to trademarks,
which was required to include:

... a list of other essential references for U.S. and
international trademark practice
... a concise, complete overview of Trademark Law
... a concise overview of International Trademark Law
...  preferred international search methodologies
... specific coverage of trademark practice in eleven countries
thought to be the
... a directory of international trademark law firms, organized by country,
     including a compilation of brochures and price lists for
legal services provided
     by international law firms specializing in this area
...  a directory of international trademark offices
... all forms, letter formats, statutes, references to supporting
materials, etc.,
     placed in appendices for easy copying

George

_______________________________________________
George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner                http://www.gapent.com/rainmaking/
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.        mailto:georgem@gapent.com
http://www.gapent.com
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases: http://www.gapent.com/pr/
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.


              ***  NEW POST - Marketing Success Part 3  ***


From: "Gordon F. Currie" 
Subject: Marketing Success Part 3

This email post follows up on the previous email notes I have shared
on innovative and creative web site marketing techniques.

As many of you may be aware, I have been using and promoting
innovative marketing techniques on the MYST & RIVEN links / Bookstore
web site located at;

http://www.gfcurrie.com/mystpage.html

In continuing to promote client loyalty and my  "giving back to the
net" philosophy, I have established a sister site to the above links
site, called RIVENGUILD, located at;

http://www.rivenguild.com

The marketing model here was I wanted to provide a place where fans of
RIVEN ( the much awaited sequel to MYST - the leading computer game )
could access FREE web space to promote their interest in the game.

Here are some methods I used and the benefits:

1)  I offer FREE web space to applicants wanting to establish a Riven
fan page.

Benefits: Goodwill among online Riven community, advertising
opportunities to business looking at targeted, gaming audience. As
well, CYAN the creators of Riven, view my site as a positive influence
in promoting their company. This further increases my positive
relationship with the company.

2)  Creation of an Enhanced Hosting Program - For a small monthly fee
I am offering more web space, enhanced web gadgets ( Autoresponders,
scripting etc. ). The program I called RivenGuild Plus and it is
targeted at people looking for a commercial solution for larger web
sites.

Benefits: Increased cashflow and spin-off web hosting income

3)  Targeted Banner Ads based on site feedback - Using announcements
on the Riven LYST ( a mailing list devoted to the game ) I gathered
feedback from fans that indicated many were unable to play the game
based on system requirements. This information then allowed me to
target advertisers who provided memory upgrades, video cards,
harddrive suppliers and gaming magazines.

Benefits: Better closing ratios for ad sales and increased click thru
rates for those that place an ad. Everyone benefits!

4)  Partnership with Riven LYST and sister site - The greatest success
in creating the RivenGuild site was in the partnering with a mailing
list and my original site. Buttons on each of the two sites and the
mailing list site, flow traffic in a circular pattern. By closely
monitoring activity amongst the 3 sites, we can fine tune traffic flow
and actually keep people on site longer.

Benefits: The average visitor to the site stays about 23 minutes and
visits on average 3.7 pages. As well, they read on average, 6.2
messages on the webboards.

In closing, building a web site and offering Free web hosting to a
targeted group of people may seem odd at the outset but through
careful planning, it is a business model that is generating ad revenue
and building a loyalty among the gaming community.

Best Regards

Gordon Currie
Webmaster
RivenGuild - http://www.rivenguild.com
MYST & RIVEN Links / Bookstore - http://www.gfcurrie.com/mystpage.html

----------------------------------------
G.F.Currie Consulting
Web Site Design, Internet Training and Marketing
Email gcurrie@gfcurrie.com   250-782-6388
http://www.gfcurrie.com


                 ***  [Moderator's Comment]  ***

Really, Gordon.  There's only one word for the online 'brew'
you've created...

Brilliant.  Thanks for sharing.

Let me take this opportunity to ask the rest of the list...

"How have you partnered your site(s) with others to gain
a visibility advantage?

GKF


              ***  NEW POST - Do Classifieds Work?  ***


From: Brigitte Synesael 
Subject: Re: Do Classifieds Work?

At 11:32 PM 10/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I'm really sorry, I just joined this list midstream.   Smack me if this
>comment is stupid.
>
>re:
>> 2) Use free classified ad sites.

[moderator snip]

>I would like to know if anyone has had ANY success with this.  I have
>serious doubts about its effectiveness.
>
>OTOH, we have had excellent results posting classifieds in Yahoo.  But
>no one else gets that kind of traffic.
>

I have used free classifieds with a coding system on a few occassions.  I
had posted to literally hundreds of free classifieds.  I haven't found them
to be  particularly successful.  First of all, it's difficult (in some
cases) to have room in your ad for coding instructions due to the
limitations of permitted ad size.  (eg. put dept 106b in the subject
header)  More often than not, I found that people did not follow the coding
instructions; it would be all right if they put it in the body of the
message instead, but they wouldn't include it at all.  Although I agree
with the concept of coding and tracking, as a result of my experiences with
free classifieds, I have to wonder if it's worth the extra time spent in
doing so.  I really like Tom's idea about using a different email address
or URL. (Well done, Tom!) :)  If I do this again, I'll definitely do that.
I found that most of the response I received was unsolicited mail.  Those
that did inquire, it seemed, were looking for freebies.  They weren't
serious customers.  That's my experience anyway, I'll be interested in
hearing others.

Brigitte Synesael
Your health is YOUR responsibility, and you DO have choices.
Discover what they are with your FREE subscription to:
Your Life - Your Choice. Enjoy optimum health, the freedom of
choice, and the Your Life - Your Choice Newsletter.
http://www.odyssey.on.ca/~b.synesael/yourlife


                  --------------------
                     The Corkboard
                  --------------------


From: richway 
Subject: Wanted: Leisurely Foodstuff & Wine Products.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Since China now is rapidly growing market and we have a well
salesnet for foodstuff and wine products, so we are seeking
some unique Leisurely Foodstuff (including chocolate) and
Wine Products. Serious suppliers who wish to invest in China
Market only, we want to be the Master Franchisees of this
product(s) in China. Contact with us asap if interested.

Sincerely,

Victor Shen

Richway International Ltd. -- Your Reliable Partner in China!
R2002-2003,Dongyuan Mansion,66 Fengqi Rd, Hangzhou,310004, China.
Fax:+86-571-5283714; Tel:5283713; Email: richway@public.hz.zj.cn
http://www.chinazhenou.com/client/richway.htm



                  --------------------
                  Question of the Week
                  --------------------

Results of last week's Question of the Week was a two-part.
Here are the results;

a) How much time do you spend online each week marketing your
business? (40 respondents)

Answer                 # of Respondents

Less than 5 hours               9
5 to 10 hours                  10
10 to 20 hours                 10
20 to 40 hours                  7
Over 40 hours                   4

A pretty even spread if you ask me.  The only 'odd' stat here is
"Over 40 hours" with only 4 respondents.  I guess too many of us
like to see our families and get outside once in a while.  :)

b) How long has  your company  been in business? (39 respondents)

Answer                 # of Respondents

Less than 6 months              3
6 months to 1 year              8
1 to 3 years                   15
3 to 5 years                    1
Over 5 years                   12

It was interesting to note that, with few exceptions,
those who have been in business over 5 years are
spending less than 5 hours in online marketing.  This says to
me that one of two things is operating here...  or maybe both;

1) A business that has been in existence for 5 years or more
already has a customer base in place and does not need as intensive
a marketing effort as a younger business.

2) The longer a business is online, the less interested it's
operators seem in internet marketing...  or the less time
they have to put into it.


This Week's Question of the Week

In what form do you receive the majority of your inquiries/orders?

[ ] E-mail
[ ] Telephone
[ ] Snail Mail
[ ] FAX


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The E-Marketing Digest                   Webbers Communications
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All Rights Reserved                         N. Conway, NH 03860
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