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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #93
                        October 20, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

                 This week's Guest Moderator is
             Nancy Roebke 

                         ProfNet Org.
                Partners for Long Term Success!
                Helping Business Professionals
             Generate More Revenue For Their Firms

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Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

      "So What Do You Do?"

+ New Subjects

     "Pay Per Sale Model"
         -Cheryl C. Ho
         - Moderator's Reply

     "Credit Card Security Questions"
         -Dave Thuillier
         - Moderator's Reply

+ Ongoing

     "Spending Money on Online Ads"
          -George Matyjewicz
            - Moderator's Reply
          -Kurt Schweitzer
            - Moderator's Reply

+ Corkboard

     -Phil Doyle

+ Question of the Week

    "Responses to Last Week's QotW"
     - Gary K. Foote

    "This Week's Question"


                  Moderator's Comments


A big, blank space for me to fill up. Gary told me to treat this forum
like it were my own for this week. After the great job George did when
it was his turn, I hope Gary doesn't regret telling me that!! :)

Seriously, I am interested this week in finding out about how business
is going on the internet for you and your firm. I am also interested in
what a good busines lead is for you and how I would know someone is a
good client for you should I be able to refer business to you in the

One of the biggest mistakes people make when trying to talk about what
they do, is saying too much of the wrong things that don't help us help
them. So, to aid you in making a good introduction, I have a couple
articles on autoresponder about this topic. They are called "Making a
Great Presentation" at and "So
What Do You Do" at

The question I ask of you all is, "So what do you do?". You have two
sentences to tell me what a good business lead is for you. Make it
specific enough that I can focus on the faces of the people I know who
can help you. To get you started, here's mine. I am Nancy Roebke,
specialist in generating qualified leads online. A good lead for me this
week would be online print shops, realtors, CPAs and advertising
specialty firms looking for qualified business leads.

So- what do you do?


Nancy Roebke
Learn to Network!
Increase income, cut costs, and put an end to cold calling.
Get our FREE series of articles that teach you the secrets
of successful networking. Today!

ProfNet,Inc  ExecDirector@Profnet.Org

                      New Subjects

From: "Cheryl C. Ho" 
Subject: "Pay Per Sale Model"


This is partially in response to Dave Thuillier's posting regarding his
search for an appropriate way to market his site.  I am a huge proponent
of the pay-per-sale model.

> I have been continiously bombarded by
> those willing to sell me their services. The only problem was that
> there was NO GUARANTEE OF PROFIT. The typical 'pay me first and I will
> give you ideas to help you' trap.

The pay-per-sale model is great because the merchant does not pay unless
a sale is made. And from a site owner's perspective, setting up this
type of 'affiliates' program allows them to open a virtual storefront
without having to invest in a costly merchant server or handle

My company, LinkShare Corporation takes the view that links are
undervalued assets on the Web and as such, we offer a software that
allows merchants to set up affiliate type programs. We, however, take
the pay-per-sale method a step further.  We are offering a network where
sites can view postings from merchants interested in rewarding referrals
that lead to sales.  Our concept is to introduce merchants, who know
their product best, to site owners, who are most familiar with their
audience, and provide them with a trusted third party to do the tracking
and the billing (LinkShare).  What results is a win-win-win situation.
We think this model does more than advertise (for which their still is a
need) but fundamentally sets up a means to create and build an online
sales channel.  Joining The LinkShare Network is completely free for
site owners.  For online merchants, we charge a 2-3% fee on all
transactions that flow through our network.  As such, we don't make any
money unless both the merchant and site owner make money!  Over 40
merchants have already signed up, including FAO Schwarz, Omaha Steaks,
and L'eggs, offering a myriad of products from toys to cigars to
computer games to gift baskets.  The Network also consists of over 200
site owners, looking to partner with merchants in these commission-based

If anyone has any questions or need further information, please feel
free to contact me at any time.

Best Regards,
Cheryl C. Ho
Vice President, Marketing
LinkShare Corporation
"The Software. The Network. The Solution."

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***

I have a few of these arrangements set up on my site as well, although
not through Cheryl's firm. I can tell you that there is increased
traffic from arrangements like these as well as the potential for
revenue. I am selective about what I promote on my site so that I have
products and services that my visitors would be likely to use.

Nancy Roebke

              *** NEW SUBJECT "Credit Card Security Questions"  ***

From: Dave Thuillier 
Subject: "Credit Card Security Questions"


This may be a little off topic. However I think that most companies that
are doing business on-line have, or may need to address this issue at
some point. My store just started to accept credit cards yesterday. I
would like to bring this ability to the on-line sector of my business. I
am looking for any ideas this group may have that would assure me that I
am dealing with the proper card owner.

I have seen sites that require a signed form prior to accepting a credit
card. I have also seen sites that will accept the card info without a
signature. How do you verify the name and address of the person using
the card? I have a magnetic strip reader in the store that I can key
the card number into. The equipment will then dial out and verify that
the card is ok to use. When I mention accepting internet orders, the
rep's that I have talked to so far tell me that it is too risky to
accept the order on-line. When I dig deeper I find that the rep's are
unfamiliar with the net and really aren't able to give me a qualified

What is the typical issue when dealing with a chargeback? (Dissatisfied
customer? the I didn't charge this one? Stolen card?) The card processor
company was a bit vague on these answers, probably because I wasn't able
to ask the right questions at the right time due to my unfamiliarity
with a merchant account.

       "How big a problem are chargebacks on the net?"
       "What other issues might I run across as I set up?"

Any help you might supply would be of a tremendous help.

Dave Thuillier
Owner, Dreamer's Den
Retailer: Collectable Card Games, Models & Hobby Materials, Audio Books,
Fantasy & Sci-FI Books, Role Playing Games, Quantity Discounts available

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


A thread on this topic discussed on another list I am on brought up the
issue of purchases made by credit cards from outside of the United
States. It appears there are certain countries that do not prosecute for
credit card fraud, so there are serious problems with it there.

Thieves have figured out ways to make the charges go through when they
want to make a purchase, only to have those authorizations declined
later and the merchant looses their money and their goods (if they have
shipped them). There are services online that will do a more thorough
check than what most scanner card services do. There is a fee for this
service. Unfortunately I cannot find the post that told of a firm that
does this. Perhaps someone on the list will know.

Nancy Roebke

        ***  NEW POST - Spending Money on Online Ads  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Spending Money on Online Ads

>You know, I answered that survey question with the "dollar" amount I
>spend online. I now feel that is not entirely accurate of a figure. This
is based on the feeling that TIME has a value and I did not place a
>dollar value on the time I spend marketing online. Even if I placed a
>low hourly rate to the time I spend doing online marketing activities
>(writing articles, supplying information, following up on leads, etc),
>my dollar cost would be over the highest option offered on the survey.
>This leads me to wonder if many more entrepreneurs are spending their
>time versus their dollars on online promotion. This is true in my case.

Time only has a value if it can be used somehwere else to
generate money.  Otherwise it is an overhead which needs to be
absorbed.  If you didn't spend time online, could you generate
money with your time?  If you were working for a company for a
salary, you would be paid whether or not you generated revenue.

The calcualtion of the value of  time in an equation likes this
is "soft costs" -- paid whether you do this function  or not.
Try taking the value of yuour time off your income tax return as an


George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases:
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***

All good points. IF one COULD be making money doing something else,
which is my case, how does one put a value on that time (not for taxes
either. We can't there no matter what, I don't think!)?

Nancy Roebke

        ***  NEW POST - Spending Money on Online Ads  ***

From: Kurt Schweitzer 
Subject: Spending Money on Online Ads

I have a few suggestions for Todd Mogren of Coastal Tool & Supply
 regarding his on-line advertising dollars.

>The biggest reason why we do not spend more for I-marketing is
>most certainly ROI.  The numbers just do not add up.
>Last month we had 300,000 hits which is the result of 25,000
>unique visitors.  We received around 500 orders from those
>visitors.  2% of the visitors placed an order.  That percentage
>has held true for the past 2 years; 2% of visitors place an order.

After visiting your site I think you can improve your numbers.

First off, the Costal Tool & Supply website comes across as being
strictly a catalog. It makes me wonder about the "real world" store. The
on-line version leads me to believe that if I were to walk into the
"real" store, I'd be met by shelves of tools packed so that the minimum
amount of shelf frontage was given to each tool. If I wanted to see what
a tool looked like, find out what "DW974K2" means, or even find out how
much it cost I would have to go over to the shelf, take down a box, and
open it up to get to the product description inside.

Is this what you do in your "real" store? I doubt it!

One of our local hardware stores is essentially the antithesis of this.
It's in an old saw mill and has next to nothing in the way of outside
displays, but when you walk into the store you are IMMEDIATELY presented
with their most decorative, high-priced, USELESS tools. Face it! How
many people ever USE framing chisels, slicks, japanese handsaws, or burl
oak plywood? (Yes, I own most of this list! :-) But there they are, on
proud display in the front of the store!

How about comparison shopping? A "real" tool store is organized so that
when I walk up to the display of drills, I can find out the prices
INSTANTLY. I may only have $40 to spend, so helping me locate the
products that are in my price range will make it more likely that I'll
buy HERE.

If I'm NOT in the market to buy TODAY, why would I ever come here? I go
to the local store occasionally just because of the way it SMELLS (fresh
cut wood and linseed oil). You can't make your website smell different
("the only website with that new-website smell!"), but you CAN take
steps to develop a community of woodworkers who "hang out" there. How
about tool reviews, contributed by the visitors? Perhaps project
suggestions, built using one tool or another? Industry gossip, perhaps?
Or maybe celebrity visits? (Bob Villa one week, Tim "Taylor" the next?)

>If we were to buy 100,000 impressions the cost would be $2,000.
>The average click thru is 2%.  That would result in 2000 unique
>visits.  2% of those visitors place an order.

What have you been doing these past two years to promote your site?

I noticed on your site a mention of the rec.woodworking newsgroup. Do
you personally monitor that group? Do you ever post replies to
questions? Does your newsgroup signature mention your company and its

How about off-line media? If I were to pick up an issue of American
Woodworker and came across one of your ads, would I see the URL of your

How about your printed catalog? Does it have your URL printed on every
page next to your 800 number?

These are all things you can do to promote your website that don't cost
you a thing over your current advertising. One of my clients started
doing this earlier this year (after I finished their site) and is now
processing nearly 2,000 orders a month.

You're right to be concerned with the return on your advertising
dollars. In this case I think you should start by improving the product
being advertised (the website) and THEN put some money into promoting

Kurt Schweitzer

Kurt Schweitzer
Sunrise Consulting, Inc.
Small Business Technoplex -

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***

EXCELLENT POST! Lots of helpful ideas in there! Let me know if you would
like a list of 15 online marketing ideas that are free or almost free..

Nancy Roebke

From: Phil Doyle 
Subject: Virtual Franchise

Virtual Franchise:
Brainware seeks long-term, sole-agent relationships with professional
marketers who have an existing business-to-business client base in
major world markets.  Commissions (15%) with full report are paid
on all sales in your market -- on your personal orders, on orders
for clients and on all orders from customers in your market
received directly via Brainware Business Video catalog at  .

Please email your qualifications and questions.

"Create a sustained, competitive
advantage with positive programming."

Phil Doyle
Brainware Business Video Store
publisher,  B2B eNews International Business Journal

(signature edited to 6 lines)
                  Question of the Week

How many of the following internet marketing tools are you currently

[ ] Online Classified
[ ] Web Site
[ ] Newsgroups
[ ] Email Lists
[ ] Signature Tag
[ ] Online Press Release Submission
[ ] Publishing Articles
[ ] Leading Forum Discussions in Chat
[ ] Banner Ads
[ ] Reciprical Links
[ ] Autoresponders
[ ] Malls
[ ] Online Organized Networking Groups

Of the above forms you are using, which ONE is the most effective in
bringing you qualified business leads?

[ ] Online Classified
[ ] Web Site
[ ] Newsgroups
[ ] Email Lists
[ ] Signature Tag
[ ] Online Press Release Submission
[ ] Publishing Articles
[ ] Leading Forum Discussions in Chat
[ ] Banner Ads
[ ] Reciprical Links
[ ] Autoresponders
[ ] Malls
[ ] Online Organized Networking Groups

       ***  Last Week's Question of the Week  ***

Here is last week's Q;

In what form do you receive the majority of your inquiries/orders?

[ ] E-mail
[ ] Telephone
[ ] Snail Mail
[ ] FAX

Here is the breakdown of responses;

There were 19 respondents

E-mail              10
Phone                3
FAX                  3
Snail Mail           1 (orders only)

Two wrote in (our GM included) that they made the most
contacts in person, a choice I neglected to include.  Sorry
about that folks.  Anyway, e-mail won hands down as the most
common form of receiving inquiries and/or orders.  I expected
this result, but anticipated a stronger showing for the Phone
category, but maybe this lack is because I muddied the waters
by asking about orders and inquiries in the same question.

I'll try to be more clear in the future.

Gary K. Foote

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