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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #95
                        October 22, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

                 This week's Guest Moderator is
             Nancy Roebke 

                         ProfNet Org.
                Partners for Long Term Success!
                Helping Business Professionals
             Generate More Revenue For Their Firms

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Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

   Chat As A Networking Tool

+ New Subjects

     "Newsgroups, lists, and other forums"

         -Paul Myers

     "A Question About Pegasus"

         -Rick Smith

     "What Is the Most Cost-Efficient Way To Communicate
      With Business Decision-Makers?"

         - Phil Doyle
          - Moderator's Reply

+ Ongoing

      "So, What Do You Do?"

       -Rick Smith
        - Moderator's Reply
       -Thomas Keith
        - Moderator's Reply
       -Jesse Wooding
        - Moderator's Reply

     "Credit Card Security Questions"

         -Scott D. Prock
          - Moderator's Reply
         -Gary Schwartz
          -Moderator's Reply
         -Andrey B. Yastrebov

     "Spending Money on Online Ads"

          -George Matyjewicz
            - Moderator's Reply

+ Question of the Week

    "Responses to Last Week's QotW"
     - Gary K. Foote

    "This Week's Question"


                  Moderator's Comments

Hi all,

I just finished hosting an online chat on how to network on the Internet
and make more money. I think that chat is a vital part of an effective
online networking strategy. I have an article about how to network in
chat available at Here's a description
of the article:

One of the most frequently missed mediums for on line networking that I
have in my repertoire is the chat room. That may be because chat rooms
are often thought to be place where kids hang out and gossip. But chat
has become a vital networking tool for me for online networking. I have
a private chat room on my site and attend the chat functions of others
to learn.

I have participated in chats over the last year with great success.
"Success" means (in this example) speaking to a target market in a
learning-friendly environment that leads to further interest in the
topics discussed.

If you haven't tried chat, please check it out. Learn a little more
about it and see how it fits in your networking strategy.


Nancy Roebke
Learn to Network!
Increase income, cut costs, and put an end to cold calling.
Get our FREE series of articles that teach you the secrets
of successful networking. Today!

ProfNet,Inc  ExecDirector@Profnet.Org

                      New Subjects

From: Paul Myers 
Subject: Newsgroups, lists, and other forums


> For example, Ray Gabriel,  owner of the International Business
> List refers to that as a mailing list.  Yet mailing lists on the
> Net seem to be opt-in or Spam.  I recently got a message from a
> list owner in response to a post where I stated that "I am active
> on 95 newsgroups."  His message to me was "Are you active on 95
> different newsgroups or *mailing lists*?  Or both?   I understood
> that you were active on the discussion lists and not as much the
> newsgroups."

As Nancy pointed out, the word "newsgroup" applies correctly to only
those groups which are fed through a system like Usenet. In general,
Usenet is what people mean when they say newsgroup, but that's not
*quite* complete.

A newsgroup differs from a list in that it is not sent directly to your
emailbox. The messages (called "articles") are kept on a server and
accessed separately, usually with a newsreader like Agent, WinVN, or
(for those who are online antiques) tin. There are probably as many
private 'local' newsgroups in the world as there are public ones.

The terms "mailing list", "discussion list", "email list", and
"listserv" all describe the same thing. Posts are sent to a central
email address, and redistributed to all subscribers.

The term listserv is generally used because the first program for
operating such lists was called ... Listserv. Majordomo and listserv
are still the main programs used, but many lists are run from other
specialised programs, and even from emailers. I run one exclusively
from Pegasus. This list is, I believe, run from Eudora.

A Very Important Distinction: Usenet newsgroups are never private
forums. Email lists are always privately owned. This very much affects
the way people behave in them. In the newsgroup I moderate, I cannot
simply boot someone out, unless they are really extremely badly
behaved. This is a Good Thing.

In the discussion lists I run, I can give someone the boot for any
violation of the rules. Or none, if I wanted to see the rest of the
group jump ship. This is also a Good Thing.

Think of newsgroups as public meeting places, and lists as being
invited to a private home or business establishment.

Digests are lists, of whatever label you choose. They are simply
lists, with the posts compiled into one email, whether manually, as in
the case with this list, or automatically, as in many others. The
difference there is the delivery of the content, not the system used.
Not all digests are moderated.

To confuse things, some lists are gated to newsgroups, and vice versa,
so that the system overlaps. The Bitserv hierarchy contains a lot of
good examples of this.

Chat is a different animal. It's real time, and can be public or
private, depending on how the channel is set up, and what sort of
server arrangements are used. Doesn't really fit with the rest.

This is actually important in one respect. The system of delivery and
the role of the moderator and a few significant posters seriously
interact to affect the flavor of the group. These are communities, as
Nancy says, and they all have different personalities. Understanding
how these things interact will impact on your strategy in posting to
them, and in understanding the posts of others.

Hope this helps....

Paul Myers
   Available on fine newservers everywhere.
Listowner, Microbusiness Discussion List
   Subscription address -

              *** "A Question About Pegasus"  ***

From: Rick Smith 
Subject: A Question About Pegasus
I need some help from all you Pegasus experts.

I am using Pegasus version 2.54 for Windows 3.1.  I'm having a problem
with mail delivery.  I have setup mail rules to send out a current
newsletter issue when people subscribe to the newsletter.  I also use
Pegasus to send the newsletter to the distribution list.  (To receive
your free subscription,  or send an e-mail with SUBSCRIBE NEWS in the subject to

Usually when I send something to the distribution list, I get a large
number of errors from the Mail Delivery Subsystem.  But the problem is
not isolated to the distribution list.  Sometimes I get the errors after
sending out one or two new subscriptions.

I initially thought the problem was with my ISP.  So I called them.
They asked me to send a sample message using the ISP provided Netscape.
I did this.  I also sent a sample message from my Compuserve account.  I
sent a third sample message from Pegasus.  All three samples were sent
to an address that I've had problems with in the past.  The message from
Compuserve and Netscape arrived fine and the recipient replied to both.
I got the usual error message on the message from Pegasus.  In this
case, the recipient is on AOL.  But that is not always the case.

The error messages, (the large majority of them), are usually one of the

Unresolvable host name mail.lig, check your configuration

Sender domain mail.lig not found in DNS or not compliant with section
6.2.7 of RFC 822

DNS lookup failed for sender domain

Sender domain not found in DNS (see RFC 1123 - sections 5.2.2 and

Access denied, name mail.lig unknown to DNS

Unrecognized domain 'mail.lig'

In Pegasus, the POP3 server is setup for  and
the SMTP server is setup for .  I have checked
these a hundred times and verified with the BellSouth.Net Web page that
these are the correct mail servers for my dial-up account.  (I don't
seem to be having any trouble receiving mail.  At least not that I know

I checked the Pegasus online help and found essentially nothing.  Either
I'm doing something wrong in Pegasus or Pegasus sends something weird
with the messages that the others don't.

I look forward to your reply.

Rick Smith, "The Guerrilla Computer Consultant"
+++ Discover 7 Secrets of Making Your Competition Disappear! +++
Rick's latest report for all small and home based businesses
reveals the secrets of "How to Use Your Computer Like a Tank to
Roll Over Your Competition." To request a copy of your free, no
obligation report send any e-mail to

*******  What Is the Most Cost-Efficient Way
        To Communicate With Business Decision-Makers?   **************

From: Phil Doyle 
Subject: What Is the Most Cost-Efficient Way To Communicate With
Business Decision-Makers?

According to a Penton Research Services analysis  of U.S. cost figures
for various business marketing tools, the average cost per contact
ranges from a low of US$0.32 for an ad placed in a specialized business
publication to $277.00 for a personal, industrial sales call.

According to Sales & Marketing Management magazine, the average cost of
a sales call, across all industries is $113.25. The  average  cost  per
contact  for  other  marketing tools:

trade shows,  $162.00;
telemarketing, $31.16;
business letters, $13.60;
direct mail, $1.68;
and the Internet, $0.98.   Aha!

Further, successful companies invest 3% of gross sales in training,
especially in sales training, so their sales reps don't blow it once
they've spent all that money to get qualified prospects.

Phil Doyle

Brainware Business Video "Virtual Franchise"
B2B eNews International Business Journal

Philip Stills Doyle
Author, Get A Life by Philip Stills, best-selling network marketing book
Publisher, B2B eNews International Business Journal
(signature cut to 6 lines)

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


These are very interesting statistics. Do you know the dates that the
data is from ? Especially the year?

Nancy Roebke

              *** "So, What Do You Do?"  ***

From: Rick Smith 
Subject: So, What Do You Do?

In issue #93, our guest moderator Nancy asked "So What Do You Do?"  She
also asked, "What would be a good lead for you?"  With that, here are my
two sentences.

I am Rick Smith, "The Guerrilla Computer Consultant".  We help small and
home office businesses competition proof their businesses in 180 days or
less.  A good lead for me would be a small or home office business that
is interested in capitalizing on new, low-cost, and no cost methods
using their computer technology in their marketing.  (As a matter of
fact, I publish an e-zine that focuses on this very topic.  To receive
your free subscription,  or send an e-mail with SUBSCRIBE NEWS in the subject to
) Ok.  So it was a little more than two sentences.

Rick Smith, "The Guerrilla Computer Consultant"
+++ Discover 7 Secrets of Making Your Competition Disappear! +++
Rick's latest report for all small and home based businesses
reveals the secrets of "How to Use Your Computer Like a Tank to
Roll Over Your Competition." To request a copy of your free, no
obligation report send any e-mail to

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


GREAT opening sentence! I would suggest that, instead of saying "A good
lead for me would be a small or home office business that is interested
in capitalizing on new, low-cost, and no cost methods using their
computer technology in their marketing.", that you mention WHAT types of
businesses you see benefit the most. Again, this will help us focus on
faces. I realize there are LOTS of businesses that fit your client
profile, but that very fact makes it harder for us to help you.

You mentioned small and home-office businesses. Maybe tell us which
ones. CPAs? Web Designers? Electricians? Retail Clothing Outlets? The
answer may be yes, yes, yes, and YES. But by breaking it down into the
actual categories, you'll get more qualified referrals-faster.

Nancy Roebke

              *** "So, What Do You Do?"  ***

From: Thomas Keith 
Subject: So, What Do You Do?

Hi Nancy,

I am Thomas Keith and I help businesses increase brand recognition,
website traffic, and repeat sales. A good lead for me would be a website
owner who is looking for a unique promotional tool.

After reading a few of your auto-responder articles (& George's
"Elevator Speech" post), I realize I need to work on this aspect of
selling yourself through networking. I'm looking forward to your
critique ;-)


Marketing tip: Keep your message in front of your
target audience by making it their screen saver!

Custom savers promote your product, service or website!

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


Ok. Let's see. I know a lot of people but none of them have ever said to
me that they are looking for a unique promotional tool. So, for your
first sentence I would suggest adding a quantitative figure. "I help
businesses increase brand recognition, website traffic, and repeat sales
up to 20%", or whatever the REAL number is. (You may get asked for proof
so make sure this is a true, quantitative figure).

Next, the second sentence is very general. Again we ALL want to reap
better results from our websites, so limit that field in our mind for
us. What field of business do the majority of your clients work in? If
there is no majority, tell us some of the fields you have worked with..a
few at a time (like in my intro, I mentioned several fields, but not so
many you got overwhelmed).

A note about this exercise. MOST people are concerned that, if they
don't tell us EVERYONE that they can service, we might miss sending them
someone. In reality, if you tell us too much or in too broad of terms,
we just cannot focus on faces, and we will send you no one.

This technique works very well offline as well.

Nancy Roebke

              *** "So, What Do You Do?"  ***

Subject: So, What Do You Do?

<< (snip)
 A good lead for me would be people you know who were recently
downsized. A good lead for me would be people who have children under 10
years old.

 In both of these examples, we will find it easier to focus on the faces
 of people we know who suit your client profile. I'm sure you can think
 of others- this should help you get started.>>

     Ok, I see your point.  I suppose it often pays to be specific in
all aspects of marketing.  Both of the examples you gave are "ideal
leads" in my case.  If I had been more specific, you would be able to
give me more appropriate leads.

     I suppose this may be an entirely different subject, but I think
that adding details often helps when letting someone know what you do.
For instance, if I were trying to help someone in my downline find ideal
leads, I may just say, "You want to find anyone interested in a earning
a second income."  If I were to be more helpful, I would tell him
specifically that people who do not have a high income or have kids to
support would be more motivated and willing to do the necessary work to
succeed in marketing.

 Although he may already know that, I may help reinforce it so he will
act on it.  I'm sure specific details such as how to find his ideal
leads and recruiting tactics would help much as well.  I'm also sure
that this is just one scenario out of many that adding a few small
details and being more specific will greatly improve my chances of
succeeding in network marketing.

Thank you very much,

Jesse Wooding
Independent distributor of Telecom-Pros
"We honestly save 9 out of 10 people money."

Click here to see

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


Your comments are all accurate. Fine tuning your lead requests will help
YOU, and training your team in this techique and line of thinking will
help THEM.

Nancy Roebke

             *** "Credit Card Security Questions"  ***

From: "Scott D. Prock" 
Subject: "Credit Card Security Questions"

In response to Dave's question:

>How do you verify the name and address of the person using
>the card?

Good question Dave, I am in the process of getting a merchant
account myself and some of the material I have read mentions
that non-swipe transactions can be verified by getting the billing
address of the card holder.

The newer processing equipment now must include a billing
address that matches the account number. This is how fraud is
thwarted, and it's this precaution that is allowing home-based
businesses to be able to get a merchant account easier then days

A word of caution, if any one is doing business over the Internet
with processing equipment that does not verify the billing address
you should contact the bank you have the merchant account through
and find out how to get this, it could help avoid being stuck with
major problems in the future.

Keep up the great work Nancy . . .Scott

FREE localized Internet Advertising in your community.
                     Come get your free listing

< >

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


Thank you so much.. This is an interesting exercise and I hope others
volunteer to try it. And thank you to those of you who have posted to me
privately with support.

I have to tell you all, though.. I was hoping to collect those tomatoes
I was SURE you would throw at me, so I could make a really good
spaghetti sauce! :)

Nancy Roebke

              *** New Post- "Credit Card Security Questions" ***

From: Gary Schwartz 
Subject: Credit Card Security Questions


In reponse to Dave Thuillier's question regarding
Credit Card Security Questions, you replied that the issue
has been discussed on another list you're on.  Could you please
share the name of that list, and perhaps a pointer to its

Thanks very much,

Gary Schwartz

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***


I went looking through my trash (not my real trash, my cyber-trash) and
didn't find the proper digest. If memory serves me correctly, it was
I-Sales or LEDigest. It was a recent thread (in the last two weeks) and
I have the subscriber info for the two possible digests.

I-Sales Digest Subscribe by sending a message to:
with the word - subscribe - in the body of your message.

LinkExchange Digest TO SUBSCRIBE:

              *** New Post- "Credit Card Security Questions" ***

From: "Andrey B. Yastrebov" 
Subject: Credit Card Security Questions

Claudia Hafling <> wrote:

> One way is to have the card holder fax you a copy (front and back) of
> both the card and his/her driver's license.  Have them sign a form that
> also is faxed back.  Now you have the signature in three different
> places, and permission to use the card online now and in the future.
> Takes a little longer, but it is safer this way.

Actually to protect you against chargebacks, you have to ship your
product by certified mail, because if a "bad" customer pretends
he hasn't gotten your product even 100 signitures won't help you.

I strongly suggest against measures like this. By doing that, you
show that you don't trust your customer but suspect him. I think
customers rather support your business by placing orders. Even if
1% of them is "bad" and try to make a fraud, it doesn't mean that
other 99% should be suspected.

Let's suppose you're costumer and you placed an order. Instead
of a product you get a request to send a copy of your credit
card and driver license, then you do that and recieve back
a form that you need to sign. Most of the customers would
cease at the middle of this process and will place an order
with your competitor, who values them a little bit more.

Regards. Andrey.
| Andrey B. Yastrebov    E-mail: |
|               |

        ***  NEW POST - Spending Money on Online Ads  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Spending Money on Online Ads

>Well, I guess I answered that survey correctly,then. I find it a tad bit
>unsettling that my time cannot have a dollar value put on it...but I
>can't yet put my finger on why......
>Nancy Roebke


You **CAN** put a value on your time.  And you can report it on
your financial statements.  All you need to do is pay taxes on
that time :-}.  Uncle Sam wants his share too.


George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases:
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.

                    ***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***

Maybe THAT'S what I found unsettling!! :)

Nancy Roebke

                  Question of the Week

How many of the following internet marketing tools are you currently

[ ] Online Classified
[ ] Web Site
[ ] Newsgroups
[ ] Email Lists
[ ] Signature Tag
[ ] Online Press Release Submission
[ ] Publishing Articles
[ ] Leading Forum Discussions in Chat
[ ] Banner Ads
[ ] Reciprical Links
[ ] Autoresponders
[ ] Malls
[ ] Online Organized Networking Groups

Of the above forms you are using, which ONE is the most effective in
bringing you qualified business leads?

[ ] Online Classified
[ ] Web Site
[ ] Newsgroups
[ ] Email Lists
[ ] Signature Tag
[ ] Online Press Release Submission
[ ] Publishing Articles
[ ] Leading Forum Discussions in Chat
[ ] Banner Ads
[ ] Reciprical Links
[ ] Autoresponders
[ ] Malls
[ ] Online Organized Networking Groups

       ***  Last Week's Question of the Week  ***

Here is last week's Q;

In what form do you receive the majority of your inquiries/orders?

[ ] E-mail
[ ] Telephone
[ ] Snail Mail
[ ] FAX

Here is the breakdown of responses;

There were 19 respondents

E-mail              10
Phone                3
FAX                  3
Snail Mail           1 (orders only)

Two wrote in (our GM included) that they made the most
contacts in person, a choice I neglected to include.  Sorry
about that folks.  Anyway, e-mail won hands down as the most
common form of receiving inquiries and/or orders.  I expected
this result, but anticipated a stronger showing for the Phone
category, but maybe this lack is because I muddied the waters
by asking about orders and inquiries in the same question.

I'll try to be more clear in the future.

Gary K. Foote

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