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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #107
                        November 21, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications
    Internet Marketing - Web Development - Free Quotations  
    N. Conway, NH    (603)447-1024
        For Information on Sponsoring This Publication 
To Post To This Digest:           

Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

    "A Diverse Issue"

+ New Topics

    "Bannerad Click Thru Rates"
       - Mike Christensen
       - Moderator's Comments

+ Ongoing

    "E-mail Client Recommendations?"
       - Mika Yehezkeli
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Rick Smith
       - Mike McCandless
       - Khairiz Sabri

    "Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results"
       - Barb Sybal
       - Moderator's Comments
       - George Matyjewicz

    "How do you use e-mail to promote/market/sell 
     your products/services?"
       - Ray Fix

+ The Corkboard

    "Credit Cards on the Internet"
       - Phil Doyle

    "Seeking CGI Programmer"
       - Gary K. Foote

+ Question of the Week

    Last Week - "Results in last Monday's Special Issue"

    This Week - "What is your current definition of SPAM"?


                  Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

We have a lot of posts on a lot of subjects today, so I'll 
just fade into the background and let you enjoy the fruits 
of this awesome community.


                       New Topics

From: "Mike Christensen" 
Subject: Bannerad Click Thru Rates


I was browsing the EMD website, looking for an archive of past digests that
I could search through.  I didn't find one.

What I am looking for is some information concerning the click thru rate on
banner ads.  We are just now getting into using them, starting off with the
LinkExchange.  Not having a lot of experience in this area, I don't really
have any idea what to expect in this regard.  I seem to remember a thread on
this subject earlier this year.

If you could point me to the old articles, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, maybe you could post this as a question to the list:  What click
thru rate are people seeing, with what types of products/web sites?

Thanks, and, as a side note, I think you are doing a great job with the
list.  I don't seem to have much to add, but I do read the digest as often
as I can.

Mike Christensen
Soft-tek International, Inc.
1999 N. Amidon, Wichita, KS  67203

[Moderator's Comments]


The archives are in poor shape, I know.  Someday I'll 
have a chance to catch them up.  The good news is that 
the archives are all actually online...  there are just 
no links to them.  The naming scheme is;  v02_ix.html 
where x is the number of the issue.  So this issue's 
archive URL is;

Simple, eh?



From: Mika Yehezkeli 
Subject: E-mail Client Recommendations?


I want to post to the list, but I want to consult with Gary first about
the best way to do it. I don't want it to look like I'm spamming the
list with a blatent advertisement, but I think we have the product you

[Moderator's brief comment:  Normally a post in this vein would 
be edited and placed in the Corkboard section, but it is relevant 
so I include it here.]

iBASE is a personal information management tool, a combined database and
document manager. iBASE is the first product that lets you build
relational applications without a single line of code, by just drag and
drop. This version has an email client built into the database and
document manager. This means you can send email directly from the
database, create mailing lists on-the-fly based on database queries and
import the list into your address book automatically, automatically zips
and unzips attachments, and store bookmarks with other customer data.

For the long version, see our Web site, 

The trial version that you can download is limited to 25 records per
database, 25 documents and 5 document viewers. You can fax in your order
and get an unlock code by email to upgrade to remove the limitations of
the trial version.

-Mika Yehezkeli
iBASE - Who's afraid of DATABASES?

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***  NEW POST - E-mail Client Recommendations?  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: E-mail Client Recommendations?

>I am currently using Netscape's email client (which up to now has 
>kept me happy). At this point I am trying to develop a couple of 
>email lists where a person can subscribe using a form. The form 
>is mailed in to me by my isp's server. I am forced to manually 
>imput the person's address into my address book as the form uses 
>the address of "the server" in the reply-to field. The address my 
>potential customer inputs on the form arrives in the message - not 
>in the header. After the cut and past method of adding the address 
>to my address book I then send out a prepared intro script manually 
>to the individual. Any suggestions on how to automate this process? 

Unless you want to go to the expense of a list server like
majordomo or listserv, your next best bet would be Eudora Pro.
It allows many folders and mailboxes, and has an excellent filter
system (which can also be used to filter Spam).   For an
excellent discussion of the filtering, visit Adam Boettiger's
site at

We use Eudora and maintain lists of approx 20,000 names which are
subdivided into approx 200 groups, i.e., our Automated Press
Releases separated by industry, our foreign press, visitors to
our sites, etc.  Adding a name to a group is very simple --
Special-->MakeAddress Book Entry then select the file to where
you want the name placed.  

We also use forms at our site, which we receive via e-mail.  We
can then transfer that information to a "Notes" section in the
folder, or, into the address portion.  Eudora allows for
importing, and is probably the best product on the market.
Latest Windows version is 3.0.5.  Release 4.0 is in Beta.  They
also have a newslist which discusses particular issues, and there
is a site associated with that list that answers almost any
question you may have.

Good luck


***  NEW POST - E-mail Client Recommendations?  ***

From: Rick Smith 
Subject: E-mail Client Recommendations?

Dave Thuiller wrote -

>>Another ability that would be of tremendous use would be to have messages
>>automatically cc'ed to a pre-defined folder based on the header content.
Currently >>either everything or nothing gets cc'ed.<<

Pegasus will handle this task quite nicely for you.  You can download
Pegasus, (it's freeware but you have to pay for the manual if you want
one), from .  I'm using Pegasus for my e-zine handling
chores and I know that Paul Myers is also using it.

Rick Smith, "The Guerrilla Computer Consultant"
+++ Free Newsletter Shows You How To Competition+++
+++          Proof Your Business in 180 Days                    +++
Small business owners, subscribe now to Rick's free online
newsletter to learn how to competition proof your business.
Send any e-mail to 

***  NEW POST - E-mail Client Recommendations?  ***

From: Mike McCandless 
Subject: RE:  Email Client Recommendations

Dave Thuillier writes:

> I am currently using Netscape's email client (which up to now has
> kept me happy.  At this point I am trying to develop a couple of
> email lists where a person can subscribe using a form.  The form
> is mailed in to me by my ISP's server.  I am forced to manually
> input the person's address into my address book as the form uses
> the address of "the server" in the reply-to field. [snip] After
> the cut/paste method of adding the address to my address book I
> then send out a prepared intro script manually to the individual.
> Any suggestions on how to automate.

Two suggestions:

One is to revisit how the form is sending you email so that you can
set the reply-to address how you want.  We have this exact same
scenario at our newsletter signup form.  The subscribers fills in
their email address and an email is generated which looks like it
came from the subscriber.  The email is sent to our list server
(which happens to be SVList) address.  SVList picks up the email
and sends back a welcome file.  Works great.  SVList costs a whopping
$30 and can be found at 

Two is to look at some alternative software.  I have not used this
but have read the material many times for Arial Software.  They can
be found at and I believe have a free
trial version.

Hope that helps.

Mike McCandless 
Receive our FREE newsletter
Biznews - "How North Carolina Business Leverages the Web"
Send to 

***  NEW POST - E-mail Client Recommendations?  ***

Subject: Re: email clients

> I am currently using Netscape's email client (which up to now
> has kept me happy). At this point I am trying to develop a
> couple of email lists where a person can subscribe using a
> form. The form is mailed in to me by my isp's server. I am
> forced to manually imput the person's address into my address
> book as the form uses the address of "the server" in the
> reply-to field. The address my potential customer inputs on
> the form arrives in the message - not in the header. After
> the cut and past method of adding the address to my address
> book I then send out a prepared intro script manually to the
> individual. Any suggestions on how to automate this process? 

Why don't you try Pegasus Mail . I 
only start using it a month ago. So, I will not reply to some of the 
questions you have. It's a freeware and boy, it can do a lot of 
things. However, it may not be able to get the address in the message 
and put it in a list. 

> Netscape also doesn't appear (unless I missed something) to
> have the ability to sort incoming mail. This also is being
> done manually. 

Yeah. Yet another reason I switched to Pegasus Mail. Pegasus' ability 
to filter the incoming mail and move (and many other actions) to the 
pre-defined folders is great. You could even set a filter rule and 
have files sent to anyone who requested them. More like an 
autoresponder. Check out the software. You've got nothing to lose.

> Another ability that would be of tremendous use would be to
> have  messages automatically cc'ed to a pre-defined folder
> based on the header content. Currently either everything or
> nothing gets cc'ed.

I haven't tried this one. Not sure if there is such capability with 
Pegasus. But what I believe it can do is this. On the send message 
screen you can click an icon of "copy self". This will make a copy to 
yourself and it can be directed to a pre-defined folder.

> The address book allows folders. However I must keep the
> original email address in the main list. A 'copy' of this
> info goes into the folder thus creating a massively long list
> of names outside the folders. *Is there any software that
> could be recommended that would keep the addresses completely
> in the sub-folders or is this typical of all email clients?
> Is there a software package that would do everything I need
> or am I asking for too much? 

Again I suggest you try out Pegasus Mail. If you don't like it just 
un-install it. Nothing to lose. Good luck!

Khairiz Sabri                                     KRMQuest Marketing
                Coming soon! Stik-It Classified.
Yet another Classified Ad Site that will keep your Piggy Bank intact!

***  NEW POST - Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results  ***

From: "B.A. Sybal" 
Subject: Re: Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results

> I took a quick peek at your site and saw that you are up front 
> about who your preferred customer is, but people, being people, 
> will often misinterpret advertising, misread instructions, etc.  
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "my site isn't targetted 
> correctly".  Do you mean the site design itself or your keywords 
> and search engine registrations?

Hi, Gary,

I should have elaborated on "impulse": I'd been looking for
months for a place to purchase advertising that targets
my particular audience and when I came across this
newsletter, I jumped at the chance. What I've learned is
that I should also try to ask if they have any specific
information on their readership and not "assume" that
just because a site or newsletter targets merchants,
they are same merchants I want to target to.

They charged $50 CPM and I purchased one month's
sponsorship and the following are the responses
I received:

	- one person said they didn't see any
	free electronic cards, so they left (I
	placed a page on my site for this
	ad buy and condensed my site into
	a few paragraphs and requested feedback);
	- one or two catalogue requests; and

	- one or two requests for a link (they
	would have had to made an effort
	to go through to the main site to
	find this info)

I received approximately 800 hits (or 200 unique visitors)
to this ad page for the month.

Overall, my site does quite well in the visitors department:
it's the less than 1% of actual sales of approximately
11,000 hits a day that makes me wonder what I could
be improving upon.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
My Sentiments(TM) Fine Art Cards
"Your resource for sending a smile"
1-888-ART-FOR-2 (Canada & US)
(905) 828-7399 ~ (905) 828-4143 (Fax)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Moderator's Comments]


I think that your product should be doing better than it is 
and I believe it is your website design that is holding you 
back.  I suggest condensing your opening page to a single 
screen...  no scrolling.  Make everything that is within your 
site available from a link on your opening screen.  People 
would rather click than scroll and you should see deeper site 
penetration from this.

The other thing I would do is look at your site and evaluate 
it's performance as a sales tool, rather than an advertisement 
for your products.  There should be numerous calls to action 
(links to order form, prominent 800 number, etc.) on each page 
of your site.  Remember, your site is there to make sales and 
everything you put on your site should somehow lead your 
visitors to the point of sale.


***  NEW POST - Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results

>From: "B.A. Sybal" 
>Subject: Poor Newsletter Sponsoring Results
>To be honest, I've had very poor results in any online advertising
>that's been purchased and the only answer I can come up with
>is that I don't have a direct-to-consumer product and the Internet's
>economy is still fairly focused on consumerism.

Well, I for one will definitely say it's not because of your
products.  You are one talented lady!

>I was hoping that this particular newsletter that appeared to
>target the retailer/merchant would do better, and a few other
>conclusions I can draw from the lack of response is that:
>1) the copy wasn't professionally written (somewhat of an
>impulse buy), or 2) the majority of subscribers are online
>businesses only and I'm looking for retailers with a physical
>location, or 3) my site isn't targetted correctly.

Sometimes we can't see the forest because of the trees, i.e., we
are too close to our own business to see opportunities.   Since I
also do a lot of consulting work for retailers, let me offer some ideas:

1.  Have you tried finding a list dedicated to retail only?

2.  Try professionally-written copy and try different lists.
Some have better activity than others.  Also, stats of the list
members are critical, just like any other ad you may do.  Some
owners have those stats, others don't.

3.  You need the **buyers** at retailers.  Have you tried a
mailing list of retailers (off-line)?   D&B (Duns Marketing) can
get you a good list which can also identify the dollar volume and
multiple locations.  For example, you can ask for all retailers
in SIC code 5943 (stationery), 5947 (gifts), 5912 (drug stores)
with annual sales over $1 million and with multiple locations
located south of OshKosh (wherever that is).  What I'm saying is
you can pinpoint your target.

4.  I know you are on the International Business List, but have
you tried the global trading lists where people post items for
sale (as opposed to discussions).

5.  Try an ad in a trade journal.  Gifts & Decorative Accessories
(where I have my technology article) isn't on-line yet, but you
can probably find some who are.  Or, advertise in the trade journal itself.

6.  What about the retail shows?  Like the National Retail
Federation show or the Dallas or Atlanta trade marts?  I will be
a guest speaker at the Dallas trade mart in January, and will let
you know how effective the mart is.

7.  How about contacting the major card companies like Hallmark
or American Greeting Cards.  

8.  What about a press release to targeted retail publications?

9.  Have you identified the basics at your site, i.e., do
visitors know easily enough what you are selling? 

>Before anyone screams at me for the No. 2 comment above (no
>pun intended), I get many requests from home-based businesses
>who are looking for suppliers and for the most part, I'm willing
>to help them by adjusting the minimum orders, but I can't
>give them 1-10 pieces at the same price I sell to the
>card & gift shop around the corner (for obvious business

That's not your target market.  

Hope this helps.

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.
** Not Affiliated with Grisham's book and  movie 

***  NEW POST - How do you use e-mail to promote/market/sell 
                your products/services?"  ***

From: Ray Fix 
Subject: "How do you use e-mail to..."

Hello fellow e-marketers, 

My name is Ray Fix (from Boston, MA, USA)...I've been 
lurking the last few days, and saw this post tonight 
and thought it'd be a good one for me to dive-in with.

Before I do...I assume you like new list sub's to give 
a little intro/background here goes: my past life 
includes 10 years in marketing on the ad agency side 
(last stop Hill Holiday; left in '86).  Then almost 10 
years as marketing communications director for Comdex 
Wordwide.  Throw in lots of  freelance consulting...and 
now I'm marcom director again at a Comdex competitor 
called DCI (IT conferences + trade shows re Internet, 
DBMS, Data Warehouse, etc, etc)

----------- OK, re the topic of: 
>"How do you use e-mail to promote/market/sell your 

At DCI, we use e-marketing quite extensively in all 
the above areas, in fact, much more so than Comdex who 
hardly had a clue about e-marketing - surprised(?).

First of all we *do not* spam, ever, as that just 
doesn't make sense especially for an IT educator 
evangelist firm.  However, we just recently started 
experimenting with Opt-in lists from Post.Office Direct 
and a few others.  Our internal list are quite extensive 
and segmented via product interests (ie: Net, Sales 
Automation, DBMS and a slew of others + selects via 
title, geo, etc).

We've developed "automated templates" for our marketing 
project managers to dump in their content which may or 
may not contain autoresponders, depending upon the 
project objectives.  These templates provide "click-offs" 
which automatically send relative responses into appropriate 
inquiry follow-up folders.

When we started this, I felt our outbound messages were 
too lengthy (and might potentially tick-off customer/prospects...
so we've cut back recently on the text length of teasers 
and rely more on autoresponders to fill-in and qualify.

Telemarketing taps right into these leads and qualifies 
further and either sells through or we send on to a more 
experienced call center-type.  Collateral fulfillment also 
happens, of course.  We have data that tells us we can close 
between 20-30% of lead-gen responses depending on the product, 
timing, etc.

We've also *just* sent out our first corporate e-newsletter 
"announcement" last week, and began fulfilling subscription 
requests as of today...we're already at 800+ sub's and counting...
we expect to be up to about 5,000 by the new year. Our web 
site at  also has a hot link and page for 
daily visitors to browse and subscribe through the site.  BTW, 
we do about 45-50% of our conference & expo attendee 
registration commerce via the web and email and started selling 
ad banners recently !

All of our offline collateral, ads, stationary, post cards 
(you name it) carries our site address/house ads and will 
eventually offer the e-letter as time goes on.

On a related topic, I'm looking into file transfers via email 
& attachments with our various collateral designers, printers 
and film houses. There are proprietary network suppliers and, 
of course, net-centric stuff like Acrobat.  We're just scratching 
the surface here, but the idea is to speed up proofing and cut 
FedEx costs.

I'd like to get a few discussion lists and chat rooms started 
among our various product group offerings creating dialogue 
among attendee customers (repeat + prospects), speaker/consultants, 
vendors, etc.  All it takes is time and we're stretched pretty 
tight right now.

I've also seen a lot of interest among a few of my freelance 
clients in the above areas and have started easing them along 
with building their e-lists  from current clients and web step is e-blasts and e-newsletters.

That's about it...sorry if this is more than you're looking for.

Ray Fix ---------------------------------------------------------------
FixIT MARKETING     If 'aint broke don't fix it; if it is call Ray Fix
Strategic Consulting * Copy * Internet * Direct * Event Marketing Ray 
Fix, Principal   *   Phone:617-461-0316  *   Fax:617-329-7307 
91 Wildwood Dr. *  Westwood, MA 02090 USA *  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     The Corkboard

From: Phil Doyle 
Subject: Credit Cards on Internet

Do you have a comment or experience 
about credit cards and the Internet?

B2B eNews International Business Journal,
which covers business-to-business and Internet
commerce for 50,000 readers wordlwide, is researching
this topic for the December issue

Who's creating all the fear about credit cards on the Internet?
Banks?  Merchants?  Customers?  Media?  We'd like to know.
We don't know of anyone having any bad experiences.
Do you know of a situation or have a solution to share with us?
Is it a problem using or accepting credit cards in some countries?

Please contribute your thoughts...
When we publish your comment we'll include
your name and URL, if you want.

Phil Doyle, President, WebAgency Marketing
B2B eNews International Business Journal
Brainware Business Video Store
707-538-5043  fax 707-579-1197
PO Box 1397  Santa Rosa, CA  95402 USA

***  NEW POST - Seeking CGI Programmer  ***

Hi All,

Webbers Communications is seeking an experienced CGI 
programmer to automate some of the things we currently 
do manually.  If you have these skills, please send... open discussions.


    Gary K. Foote               
    Webbers Communications          
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024

                  Question of the Week

Responses to last Week's Question of the Week were compiled into
a single Special Issue and posted Monday, Nov 17th.  There is a
copy online at the following address for those who missed it;

This Week's Question of the Week is;

"What is your current definition of SPAM"?  

Again, this is more of an essay question than anything else, 
and as such, will require more time for respondents to reply.  
I hope you all will take the time for this one.  It's pretty 
important to all of us here.  I will again post a Special Issue 
to the list on Monday with a compilation of all responses.


    Gary K. Foote               
    300+ websites since 1994        

    ------ W e b b e r s   C o m m u n i c a t i o n s -----
    P.O. Box 3214, N. Conway, NH 03860         (603)447-1024
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