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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #109
                        November 28, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications
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Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

    "A New Mailinglist"
    "Guest Moderator Search"

+ New Topics

    "Request for Guidance"
       - Geo
       - Moderator's Comments

+ Ongoing

    "ISP Limiting Number of Copies"
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer
       - Paul Myers
       - Bob Rankin


                  Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

I posted this to the EMD Special Issue #2 on Thursday, but 
thought I might just repeat it here for those who never 
read those things.    Here it is...

The response to the QOTW has been so positive that I have 
decided to spin off a new list that will focus on one online
marketing focused survey question each week.  Subscribers will be
encouraged to submit their own survey questions for inclusion.  

Rather than go ahead and add all of you good folks to this new
list without your permission I have set up the following system;

If you would like to subscribe to the MQOTW (Marketing Question of
the Week), simply send;


The newsletter will begin publishing Monday of next week.

BTW - We will still carry a Question of the Week here in the EMD. 
They will not be the same as in the MQOTW.  I know, there isn't a
QOTW in any of this week's issues.  So sue me...  

I am still seeking Guest Moderators for this publication.  I would
like to offer the helm of the EMD to a different GM every other
week.  I currently have a GM lined up for the second week in
December (Mark Rauterkus) and three others not yet scheduled.

If you would like to consider Guest Moderating the EMD 
please send 

You will receive a GM's FAQ by autoresponse and I will 
followup with personal contact soon after.

Your Moderator,


                       New Topics

From: (Southern California Golf)
Subject: Request for Guidance

I recently subscribed to this mailing list.
I am sure this question has been asked numerous times before.

I am mixed about sending email to people that have not 
requested it.  I have been trying to examine various bulk 
extraction and mailing programs.  The pricing varies greatly as do
the features.

I am soliciting advice. 

What program have you use?  Is it a integrated package, 
or combination of separate programs?  Why do you dislike 
it?  Where did you obtain it?  What was the cost?

Additionally, when trying to target my market, what 
keywords would you suggest I use while trying to extract 

Please email me directly. I don't want to be the reason 
for this forum to be overwhelmed with repetitive mail 
on this subject matter.

If you would like to constructively criticize my web 
site, please do.


They're your clients, if you don't entertain them...
  Your Competition Will!

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Geo,

My first advice would be to not pursue this avenue 
of online marketing.  If you do you will most likely 
have a ton of negastive responses and very few real 
contacts.  The folks who sell bulk e-mail software 
and lists of addresses have only one thing in mind...  
making money.  They rarely care if the addresses they 
are selling are up to date, meaning that you might 
experience a high rate of USER UNKNOWN returns.

The idea of using keywords as 'targeting' while 
extracting addresses from lists and newsgroups is 
sheer nonsense.  The only group you can effectively 
target using this method is 'internet users'.  Imagine 
that I have posted to a list or newsgroup about my new 
Volkswagon Golf and how wonderful it goes in the snow.  
Meanwhile you are extracting addresses using keywords - 
and one of them is 'golf'.  My address would be 
extracted and added to your database of 'golf interested 
people' to whom you eventually e-mail your advertisement.

I receive the ad, but, since I have never played golf, 
and your ad probably reads something like, "Our research 
shows you have an interest in this subject..." I waste my 
time reading it and you waste your time sending it.  

Now, if I am the vehemently anti-spam type - and there 
are literally millions like this online - then I get 
angry and flame you personally (maybe even attaching some 
huge files just to get 'revenge') and send a copy of your 
ad to your ISP along with a complaint.  I also report you 
to as many online 'spammer blacklists' as I can find.  In 
short, you make few sales, make many enemies and pretty 
much ruin your online image before you even get started.  
Your ISP may even kick you off their server!  Not what you 
hoped for when you set out to bulk e-mail, eh?  

Does this sound extreme?  Well, it isn't.  Personally I 
simply delete SPAM when it arrives in my e-mailbox, but 
there are tons of folks out there who take these extreme 
steps - and more - when they receive spam.  My 
recommendation is - 'don't do it... period.'

You also asked;

>If you would like to constructively criticize my web 
>site, please do.

I would suggest removing the 207K background picture 
from your 'We Provide' page.  At 28.8 it took nearly 2 
minutes to load and the fact that your text is colored 
so that it is invisible until the image loads makes your 
page look unfinished.  Most people will not wait 2 minutes 
to begin reading a page.

A service like yours depends on the professionalism of 
it's staff and some testimonials from satisfied clients 
would go a long way towards assuring potential customers 
that their clients will be treated with respect while 
golfing with your people.  I also think that some
pictures of your staff would be a good thing to have 
onsite, again, to assure the customer of your 

BTW - I think you have a unique idea and may very well 
carve out a successful niche for your service.

Your moderator,



From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: "ISP Limiting Number of Copies"

>First, I want to put in a word for Pegasus. It's free and with it
>you can arrange your filters so that when a person sends you
>email with the Subject: Subscribe, his email is automatically
>entered into your newsletter list.
>This is terrific. But I have a problem. I tried using Pegasus to
>send out my newsletter, Learning Fountain Reviews, and lo and
>behold I found out that I could only send 100 copies out at a
>time. I am with Netcom, and they told me this is their policy in
>order to avoid spamming.

This new policy by Netcom only started last Monday.  Worse yet,
they didn't warn you ahead of time.  I too have a problem, as we
send  press releases, which could go to thousands.  Short of a
list server (which Netcom doesn't offer), I don't know of
anything, but I am also interested.

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd. Tel: (201)
939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740 Specializing in
Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs. ** Not Affiliated with
Grisham's book and  movie "THE RAINMAKER" :-}

***  NEW POST - ISP Limiting Number of Copies  ***

From: "Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer" 
Subject: ISP Limiting Number of Copies

Paul wrote:

<. I tried using Pegasus to send out my newslette and
< found out that I could only send 100 copies out at a

Subject: ISP Limiting Number of Copies

> ...and lo and behold I found out that I could only send 100
> copies out at a time.
> So I called up Earthlink. They said I could only send out 50
> emails a day. Anything more is spamming.
> This sounds ridiculous to me. Does anyone have any idea which
> reliable ISPs have a policy more helpful to newsletter senders?

Paul, it IS ridiculous. Especially since the ISPs in question are
so lax in their security that their SMTP ports are constantly
being hijacked by big time spammers to send millions of UCE's.

Here's a few options for you.

1. Get a POP account somewhere, and tell them right up front that
you'll be using it to send an email newsletter, and for very
little else. They'll almost certainly recognise your name, so the
question of spam won't be a serious impediment in many cases. I
was personally very happy with the service from Pair Networks ( ) but there are a lot of the services out
there. 8.95/month was the price when I was using them.

2. Get an inexpensive listserver. One source is Gary Kliethermes, Also very reasonable, especially for
monthlies. Great service, and sensible.

3. If your ISP only allows a certain amount of emails *per send*,
rather than per day, get a copy of ListMailer, from Microtrope. It's $26.95, and you can set the maximum
number of emails per send below the cutoff threshold your ISP
sets. This would be a serious limitation for major spamming, but
isn't bad for a newsletter. And it's REALLY simple to set up and

4. Get a new ISP. Try IBM or MCI. They seem to allow distribution
of *legitimate* bulk email. Ask first, obviously. Local ISPs are
much more prone to ask questions and work with you. Mine is very
sensible. As long as they don't get complaints about actual spam,
they don't much care what I'm doing.

This is just one more example of the price we pay for spammers
irresponsibility. And there are people who defend them...

I know that I couldn't stay with an ISP that told me only 50 or
100 outbound emails per day. I do that in direct personal and
business email alone, not counting my newsletters and lists.

Note: I have no connection with the companies I mention here,
other than being happy with their service.

Hope this helps...

Save Up To 15 Cents a Minute on Long Distance
And 800/888 Service.
Or visit

***  NEW POST - ISP Limiting Number of Copies  ***

From: Bob Rankin 
Subject: re: "ISP Limiting Number of Copies"

Netcom's policy is reasonable, in my opinion.  It's a poor use of
processor and bandwidth to send more than 100 identical mailings
without using mailing list software that is designed for the task.
 Last I knew, Netcom allowed customers to setup 5 majordomo
mailing lists for free with their account.  Check into that, as it
will save you and netcom a lot of trouble.

If you're willing to pay a few bucks ($10/month) for a
professional mailing list host service, check out
- I've worked with them and it's a good reliable service.

Bob Rankin

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