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                     The E-Marketing Digest
                      Volume #2, Issue #110
                        December 1, 1997
                    Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications
    Internet Marketing - Web Development - Free Quotations  
    N. Conway, NH    (603)447-1024
        For Information on Sponsoring This Publication 
To Post this Digest:              

Table of Contents

+ Moderator's Comments

    "Recommended Resource"

+ New Topics
    "Starting an ON-line newsletter"
       - Peter Andersen

+ Ongoing

    "Pegasus E-mail Client"
       - Alan Knudsholt

    "ISP Limiting Number of Copies"
       - Andrey B. Yastrebov

    "Request for Guidance"
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Geo

+ The Corkboard

    "SPAM Busting"
       - Sean Reese

+ Question of the Week

    "Have You Ever Used Bulk E-Mail?"


                  Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

In the interests of passing on good information whenever it
comes across my desktop I would like to recommend the
Internet Advertising discussion List, the largest 
gathering of Internet Advertising and Marketing 
professionals on the Internet.  With over 11,000 members 
in 77 countries, this moderated E-Mail Discussion List 
provides a solid forum for learning about the latest trends 
in Internet Advertising.

Two additional features that are provided each week to 
listmembers are a once-weekly review of the week's industry 
news, provided in snippet format with clickable hyperlinks, 
and a once weekly message with questions from listmembers 
that are seeking help in the area of Internet Advertising.

The list has been featured as a quality resource in Brad 
Aronson's book, "Advertising on the Internet", in Jim 
Sterne's book, "Advertising on the Web" and was recently 
reviewed by Microsoft's Internet Guide "One Click Away"
as being a valuable Internet resource.

To join in the discussion in DIGEST (one message per day) 
format,  and 
put: JOIN in the BODY of your message.

To join in the discussion in a POST by POST format, and put: JOIN in the BODY of 
your message.

The list is moderated by Adam Boettiger

On another note, I have included a post from Sean Reese
 to another list to our Corkboard.  It describes a 
method for finding out just who sent you that SPAM, 
regardless of modified headers.  Check it out...

Your Moderator,


                       New Topics

From: "Peter Andersen" 
Subject: Post to E-marketing

Dear Gary K. Foote:

I would like the readers answer to this:

I am starting an ON-line newsletter (WebEpayNews) 
to merchants, that reads:

How to do business on the Internet and get paid !
I have and will continuing be collecting reports 
mainly via the Internet on secure payments via the 
Net, so busy executives and merchants will
have easy and fast access to this information.
There are 2 options for me to finance this newsletter:

Option 1: Readers will have to pay a small fee 
about $20 - of course - On line via secure online 
payment or snail mail.
Option 2: There will be commercials in the newsletter, 
that will pay for the publication of this information.

What does the readers of E-Marketing think will be the 
best option ?

Greetings from Denmark
Peter Andersen
Success4Life Marketing


From: "alan knudsholt" 
Subject: pegasus e-mail

Hi Gary !

I've been receiving the newsletter for the last 10 days.
Verrrrry nice !

In the last couple of numbers I've seen some people 
worried about Pegasus; for those experiencing 
difficulties configuring this great email client 
(single, multi or network users) I recommend you 
sign up for the Pegasus mailing list by sending 

This  list is also available  in digest  form.  
If you  wish  to receive the digested version of 
the postings, just issue a SET PM-WIN DIGEST command 
to the same address. 

Good luck and happy reading.

Alan Knudsholt

***  NEW POST - ISP Limiting Number of Copies  ***

From: Andrey Yastrebov 
Subject: Re: ISP Limiting Number of Copies

At 11:01 AM 11/28/97 +0000, you wrote:

>This is terrific. But I have a problem. I tried using Pegasus to
>send out my newsletter, Learning Fountain Reviews, and lo and
>behold I found out that I could only send 100 copies out at a
>time. I am with Netcom, and they told me this is their policy in
>order to avoid spamming.

I'm really surprised by the posts that followed this. I truly
believe that it's not a responsibility of ISP to decide what
you can send and what not. They can fight spam or fight whatever
they want, but in no case should they restrict legitimate
user activity. I would just change ISP, not because it's something
really bad, but because I can't understand how companies can
regard their clients as criminals trying to break rules, send spam, 
hack servers etc.

Anyway, I think paying $10/month for using Majordomo when you
just want to send out your newsletter is just waste of money.
100 recipients per message is not that bad, some ISP limit
it to 5. I'm author of bulk e-mail software - AY Mail (not 
for SPAM!) and many of my users were faced to that problem. 
I had to do something, and my software bypasses this limitation 
very easily. It sends a message to first 100, then to second 100
etc. Most of the time it can determine that limit automatically.
This makes sending slower, but you don't see any other
difference compared to unlimited sending. BTW: It doesn't
create any more impact on bandwidth than Majordomo.

Regards. Andrey.

| Andrey B. Yastrebov    E-mail: |
|               |

***  NEW POST - Request for Guidance  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Re: Request for Guidance

>I am mixed about sending email to people that have not 
>requested it.  I have been trying to examine various bulk 
>extraction and mailing programs.  The pricing varies 
>greatly as do the features.
>I am soliciting advice. 

It's Spam.  Don't do it.  You will get flamed.  You will be
reported to your ISP's abuse line and may eventually  be dropped.
 You will have a long-lasting image as a spammer, which w\you may
never overcome.  Hence your business will never go anywhere.

It's not worth it.


George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.
** Not Affiliated with Grisham's book and  movie 

***  NEW POST - Request for Guidance  ***

Subject: Here I am again, soliciting advise!

Hello George!

Here I am again, soliciting advise!

>My first advice would be to not pursue this avenue 
>of online marketing.

I guess my next question is obvious... How DO I 
reach those people that can use my services?  My 
target market are the 	companies NOT located in
Southern California, but do substancial business 
with customers located here.  My clients are located 
in other parts of the United States, Europe, Asia, 
all of the Americas.  My clients are companies that 
would like to entertain their customers, but do not 
have the logistics to organize an outing for just a 
few key client's people.

>The idea of using keywords as 'targeting' while 
>extracting addresses from lists and newsgroups is 
>sheer nonsense.  The only group you can effectively 
>target using this method is 'internet users'.  Imagine 
>that I have posted to a list or newsgroup about my new 
>Volkswagon Golf and how wonderful it goes in the snow.  
>Meanwhile you are extracting addresses using keywords - 
>and one of them is 'golf'.  My address would be 
>extracted and added to your database of 'golf interested 
>people' to whom you eventually e-mail your advertisement.

The mail extractors that I have seen, extract the 
address from 	specific web sites.  Would I be wrong 
to presume that addresses extracted from a golf 
oriented web site or news group would not be interested 
in another golf web site? I have no intention of 
soliciting "gamer", "antique", "classic car" or "adult" 
news group.  I want to target specific sites.

I have tried using "demo" spiders to list my site with 
"search engines."  I am not very impressed with that 
marketing strategy.

As far as my ad goes... my thought was merely to invite 
a golf 	enthusist to visit my location.  Hopefully, 
they will see a need for my services and inquire further.

>Personally I 
>simply delete SPAM when it arrives in my e-mailbox, but 
>there are tons of folks out there who take these extreme 
>steps - and more - when they receive spam.  My 
>recommendation is - 'don't do it... period.'

This may sound strange... I am one of a few people that 
read ads in newspapers and magazines.  I read most of my 
SPAM mail.  I believe that reading those things allow 
me to "keep tabs" on what my competitors are doing.  I 
hope that it will allow me to "discover" new ways of 
promoting my services by examining the way a marketer 
is promoting his "beds", "fish", "statuary", "cars", 
"bird houses", "fill in the blank",...  By reading 
those un-solcited emails, I am trying to discover what 
works and what does not.  

When I chose the name for my company, I purposely chose 
to spell out all of the words in the name. Why? I wanted 
anyone that saw my company name to know exactly what 
subject matter they would find at my site.  Like yourself,
there are millions of non golfers on the Internet.  
Should you receive a piece of mail inadvertently, inviting 
you to visit my  site, I would hope that is indicative of 
the subject matter found at that location.  Presumalbly
the reader would not be "offended" and would merely click 
on the trash can.

[Moderator wrote]

>I would suggest removing the 207K background picture 
>from your 'We Provide' page.  At 28.8 it took nearly 2 
>minutes to load and the fact that your text is colored 
>so that it is invisible until the image loads makes your 
>page look unfinished.  Most people will not wait 2 minutes 
>to begin reading a page.

I agree, I am having a little problem deciding what 
background to use.  I will correct that shortly. Thank you.

>A service like yours depends on the professionalism of 
>it's staff and some testimonials from satisfied clients 
>would go a long way towards assuring potential customers 
>that their clients will be treated with respect while 
>golfing with your people.  I also think that some
>pictures of your staff would be a good thing to have 
>onsite, again, to assure the customer of your 

Pictures of my staff... When creating my site, I tried 
to keep in mind simplicity.  The time that it takes to 
download a picture is time consuming and I was afraid 
the I would loose the visitor's interest if too much time 
is spent waiting for pictures.

Testimonials... My clients are my clients... My competitors
might like to know just who my clients are.  I can and will
provide names and contact numbers to qualified potential 
clients, not to the world in general.

>BTW - I think you have a unique idea and may very well 
>carve out a successful niche for your service.

Thank you.  I hope so.  Perhaps your readers will also 
take a few minutes to offer suggestions.  My site has been 
up since Mid September and I have still not embarked on a 
serious internet marketing campaign.  I would like to 
start something soon.  I do not want to alienate potential
customers.  I do direct mail marketing to non-soliciting 
companies.  I solicit only those companies that have 
provided golf outings to their clients in the past.  Don't 
ask how I know which companies have that history. 
Trade secret!

Lastly, Thank you, and all of the readers for taking time 
to offer suggestions on helping me promote my business.  

I sincerely hope that you will continue to take the time 
to constructively critique my marketing efforts.


They're your clients, if you don't entertain them...
		Your Competition Will!

                     The Corkboard

From:             Sean Reese 
Subject:          Re: Idea for NoSpam list

You can use tracert.exe, found in your C:\Windows 
directory, to find the spammer's true domain and 
their Internet Service Provider.  Or, for an easier 
to use, Web-based interface, you can use the Whois 
and DNSLookup sites (discussed later in this message) 
to expose your prey.   Use a domain or IP address 
from the original email; if you can't get a valid
domain name from the spam email return address, make 
sure you set your browser to view "All Headers", and 
from there you usually can get a valid one.

Here's an example of the feedback from a trace using 


Tracing route to []
over a  maximum of 30 hops:

1        *            *            *        Request timed out
2    139ms    130ms    135ms []
3    236ms    238ms    160ms
4    223ms    222ms    308ms []
5    236ms    228ms    350ms []
6    308ms    274ms    221ms []
7    400ms    252ms    314ms  sc01.MainStreet.Net []
8    294ms    246ms    242ms []
9    287ms    257ms    261ms []

      Trace complete.

The last few hops are the important ones, in this case 
#8 and #9; they tell you the domain and IP address of 
the spammer (, and the 
spammer's Internet Service Provider (,

Once you have this info, send a nasty note to both 
the spammer and their ISP complaining about abuses 
to the system and asking the ISP to take action to 
stop the spammer from future abuses.  Or threaten 
legal action against the spammer, if you're so 
inclined.  Or create a mail filter that scans for 
the offending addresses and send them to a mail 

folder.  Do whatever you feel is an appropriate 
response to the spammer's discourteousness.

Two other good tools are nslookup and whois.  Nslookup 
is useful for finding the DNS names of IP addresses 
that initiate the spam.  Once you know the domain, 
perform a whois search to get the contact information.
Whois searches provide the administrative and technical
contacts for the domain.  In addition, you can also 
tell who the provider is for virtual domains.

A DNS Lookup search engine is at

The Whois search engine is at

Peter Woods says,

"As for tracking the spammer, I usually get better results
using the IP address.  Too many spammers have figured out
how to forge their domain name by entering a fake domain
in their network preferences.  Forging the IP address
requires a bit more skill.  The information is usually
reported in the headers as "Received from:
[] by...".  Once I get a valid domain, I
usually forward the spam to the contact addresses provided
by whois."

Good luck.  My best advice is to turn it into a game, sort of a
cat-and-mouse detective adventure.  Have fun smashing the 

Sean Reese

                  Question of the Week

This Week's Question.

Have You Ever Used Bulk E-Mail?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

Have you used it more than once?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

What was your positive response rate?

What was your post-to-sales ratio?

How many flames did you receive?

How many complaints did your ISP receive?

Were you kicked from your ISP?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

Did you provide an 800 number?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

Did your number get flooded with complaints?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

Would you ever do it again?

[  ] Yes      [  ] No

Please forward your responses to the following address;

             To Post to The E-Marketing Digest:      

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The E-Marketing Digest                   Webbers Communications 
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