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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

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 The E-Marketing Digest
 Volume #2,Issue #118
 Dec 22, 1997
 Gary K. Foote, Moderator


 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications 
 N. Conway, NH 03860 (603)447-1024


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 Table of Contents

 + Moderator's Comments

     "Holiday Publication Schedule"
     "Thanks to a Volunteer"

     "Happy Holidays"

 + Ongoing

     "Accused of Spamming"
       - George Matyjewicz
       - Mel Eperthener
       - Jason Wolfe

     "AY Mail (Was SpeedMail)"
       - Andrey B. Yastrebov
       - Moderator's Reply

     "Retail Use of Technology"
       - Ray Kuhlmann

     "Dealing With Bounces"
       - William Greene
       - Rick Smith
       - Moderator's Comments

 + The Corkboard

     "I-World Report"
       - Jason Wolfe

 + Question of the Week


 Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

First, this will be the only issue of the EMD this week due 
to the end of year holiday season that most of us here 
celebrate in one form or another.  Wednesday is Christmas Eve 
and my wife, CJ and I will be spending the evening with our 
daughter, her husband Andrew, and our Grandson, Gage.  Friday 
is the day after Christmas and a traditional time for us to 
simply rest and enjoy each other's company.  So, next Monday 
will be the next time the EMD appears in your e-mailbox.  
Hope you can hold on until then. 

Second, I would like to thank Vicki Simons of Probe 
Consultants for spending many hours developing a flowchart 
for the EMD Digest Pool CGI script that ended up never 
needing to be written.  Vicki volunteered not only her time 
over the last few months, but some money as well to automate 
the Discount Pool.  As it turned out I serendipitously 
discovered the existing free service that we are currently 
using and the volunteer work Vicki had been doing became 
unnecessary before any $$$ was spent.  However, she did spend 
many, many hours working on the project in order to make this 
forum a better 'place' and I want to thank her publicly for 
all that she has done.  Thanks, Vicki.  Your efforts are 
greatly appreciated.

And finally, I would like to wish everyone here a most happy 
and peaceful holiday season.  May all of your days be merry and 

Happy Holidays from your moderator,

Gary K. Foote


From: Rainmaker 
Subject: Accused of Spamming

> Legality
>In essence the Spammer sent out an ad for FS Gourment 
>Coffee and pointed them to my web site.  Users thought I 
>sent it and bombed me.  I am the one taking all the 
>What can I do about this?  Has anyone had a similar problem?
>Is the Spammer responsible for sending email to people 
>pointing them to a domain that the Spammer does not own?  
>Or is FS Gourment Coffee liable for hiring this company to 
>send the spam without permission from me to represent my 
>site in the Spam?

Sounds like the works of Sanford Wallace a/k/a "The King of
Spam."  Legally, you may have a case, depending on how deep your
pockets.  There have been some cases where folks illegally used
another's sites,  but to get legal remedy will be tough.  Unless
you find an attorney or group who is willing to defend you for free.

Your issue isn't really with Spamford, rather it is with FS.
They gave an ad to the Spammer, which was directed to you.
Sounds like you got caught in the middle.  Be prepared to defend
your actions with your ISP, as you may get dropped by them.

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner      
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821              Fax: (201) 460-3740
Specializing in Professional Firm "Rainmaking" programs.
** Not Affiliated with Grisham's book and  movie 

***  NEW POST - Accused of Spamming  ***

From: Mel Eperthener 
Subject: Accused of Spamming -- legal question

>What can I do about this?  Has anyone had a similar problem?
>Is the Spammer responsible for sending email to people 
>pointing them to a domain that the Spammer does not own?  
>Or is FS Gourment Coffee liable for hiring this company to 
>send the spam without permission from me to represent my 
>site in the Spam?


Although I have some familiarity with the law, I am not 
an attorney, so the following is just gut feeling, and 
should not be accepted as gospel.

It would seem to me that you have a contract with the 
coffee company, and they have a contract with the spammer.  
Hence, you have to go after the coffee company for 
violation of their contract, and they have to go after 
the spammer to recover their damages.  You COULD go after 
the spammer yourself, but that is a grey area, and 
internet law is still being written.  The coffee company 
is the easier target, and they are directly responsible 
for the damage to your reputation.

Hope that this helps.  It might be worthwhile at this 
point to talk to an attorney.  I would also contact your 
ISP about this, and explain the entire situation, so that 
they will take all the facts into consideration, and 
you do not jeopardise your internet connection.  It 
may also be worthwhile to contact those people that 
flamed you, and also explain the situation.  It
will be time-consuming (think you could charge the 
coffee company for your time?), but might actually 
help you in the end.  However, anyone who reacted 
negatively to the spam will be difficult to deal with, 
and you will have to send a personal message if you 
contact them at all.  Also, have you placed any 
information on your web site explaining the situation??  
This could also help if someone just now gets POed at 
you, and goes to your web site.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but this is how I would 
probably handle the situation.



--Mel Eperthener
president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty


419 Butler Street
PO Box 95184
Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184
(412) 781-6140
(412) 781-6380

***  NEW POST - Accused of Spamming  ***

From: Postmaster 
Subject: Re: Accused of Spamming

Thank you so much for your insight Mel regarding the 
spamming I got the short end of.

Well, my attorney beleives we have a case against the FS 
Gourmet Coffee company.  However the FS Gourmet Coffee 
company is trying to say they will counter sue because 
of defamation.  You see, after I found out about the 
spamming, I immediately put a notice on my site 
explaining the situation.

He thinks he can counter sue me for what I posted.  I 
really doubt it.  

Right now, I am reqesting from him that he pays his 
outstanding balance (go figure he has an overdue bill 
to top it off!), and that he re-send the 100,000 with 
an apology.

Thanks again for your input.  I really cant beleive 
how some people operate.  

Best holiday season to you,


***  NEW POST - AY Mail (Was SpeedMail)  ***

From: "Andrey B. Yastrebov" 
Subject: AY Mail (Was SpeedMail)

Hi Netters,

Webbers Communications wrote:

> I found this e-mail software online and thought some of
> you might get some use out of it.  It is called "SpeedMail"
> for Windows 95/NT and it sends e-mail by bypassing your own
> ISP, thereby speeding the outgoing mail process
> considerably.

This is a very interesting idea, however I don't think it
may speed up something. Let's first consider what are we
going to speed up. I can think about two different issues:

First, this is how much time did you spend on your computer
doing the sending. If you're going to send some messages
to many people then in a normal case you would send just
one message to your ISP's SMTP server plus the list of
recipients. This is fast and very reliable because your
ISP's SMTP server is very close to you, connection to it
is good and everything goes smoothly. Or you can use
SpeedMail and send it to every recipients from your
computer. If you have 100 recipients, then it'll take
at least 100 times longer. Even if you connect to all
of them simultaneously, it won't speed you up very
much, because you won't be able to send more than your
modem can afford. With well written sending software the
connection to SMTP server gets about 70% of your modem's
capacity, so even if parallel sending gets 100% from yor
modem, it has a potential to increase speed only by 50%
 - no more. Also, when you connect directly to recipient's 
servers you cannot expect the connection to be as good as 
with your local SMTP server because they mey be thousands 
of miles away. So every single connection will be generally 
slower - 2-3 times. So, sending 100 messages to your SMTP 
server will be 150-200 times faster than sending them with

Second, let's consider the time from the moment you
pressed send button to the time your recipient gets
your e-mail. In case of SpeedMail this is just one
step - sending to their SMTP server from your local
machine. In a normal case this is two step process -
sending from you to your ISP's server and then from
them to recipient. For the first recipient SpeedMail
will be a little faster. However for 100-th recipient
it won't. 100-th recipient will get his message after
first 99 will be sent. Your SMTP server, having 10-20 
times faster connection to the Internet than your
local machine, will send these 99 messages much faster,
so 100-th recipient will already get his message when
SpeedMail is somewhere in the middle. So, normal way
appears to be faster than SendMail's approach from this 
viewpoint too.

Finally, there may be some troubles - like some recipient's
servers may be down (permanently or temporarely), some
connections may be broken in the middle of the talk.
Normal SMTP server just stores the message in the
queue then trying to send it over and over until it fails
for 5 days. Even if SpeedMail queues the messages, you'll
need to run it again and again to ensure everything was

I would recommend using instead a software that is optimized
for transferring your message to your ISP's SMTP server
and then let your ISP do all the job for you - it's much
faster and much more reliable. I'm author of one of these -
AY Mail -

Regards. Andrey.
| Andrey B. Yastrebov    E-mail: |
|               |

***  [Moderator's Reply]  ***

Hi Andrey,

When your post arrived I went to your site and downloaded 
your AYmail software.  First, let me say, Wow!  The download 
time was so short as to be almost unnoticable.  After the 
rapid download and simple installation I was also impressed 
with the simplicity of AYmail.  The learning curve was as 
short as the download.  I think you've got a good product, 

I would like to (carefully) suggest you consider offering a 
full-featured 30 day demo with a preset expiration timer 
instead of your current three address limit demo.  If a 
potential customer wants to know how fast AYmail works 
compared to other products, they would have to buy *before* 
they could try.



***  NEW POST - Retail Use of Technology  ***

From: "Ray Kuhlmann" 
Subject: Re: Retail Use of Technology

Hi George,

I see you're still with Netcom.  When I found out about 
their email censorship last month, along with their 
service problems, I was so outreaged that I decided to move.  

Regarding your question about retail use of technology.  
I spent 15 years in the Card and Gift Industry -- at both 
retail and wholesale/producer level.  While larger 
wholesale and manufacturing were companies were always 
ahead of retailers and small vendors, the biggest change 
I've seen at the retail level is the adoption of 
computers in *some* aspect of their business.  IMO, 
many, if not most of these small businesses still 
greatly underutilize available technologies.

I assume your article will focus on internet uses.  
My company, TurboRIM Information Systems, produces 
internet related software solutions to business.  
While we consult in a variety of marketing promotional, 
channel, and organization related areas, our 
technologically unique service is TECS -- TurboRIM's 
eMail Communications Managment.  What TECS provides 
is an ability to manage distribution (or discussion) 
lists, with the ability to sub-categorize the list by 
interest or geopraphy.  While not required, list 
traffic, subscribe, unsubscribe, and a number of 
additional commands for any or all lists can be 
processed using only one email address.  

Another capability is auto-responding.  This can 
be as simple as sending a file or as complex as 
processing a query to a database and sending out 
custom information results.

A couple examples of how a company in the gift 
industry can effectively use this technology are:  
A manufacturer adding an email address in ads  to 
handle inquiries about local sellers as a lower cost 
and more convenient alternative to a toll free 
number.  A retailer can encourage collectibles customers 
to sign up to news lists to receive announcements of 
special events, artist signings, new items, etc.  
This is one of the areas where sub-lists can be very 

Flexibility is the key to this system.  It can run on 
a single machine or across a network.  It will work 
with one or more inbound addresses as well as outbound.  
Configuration is flexible.  System can work with a 
dedicated internet connection or with a dial up account.  
This makes it an economical alternative for smaller 
businesses and companies with lower email volume 

Currently only custom installations are done, but 
we plan to make some standard software packages 
available in early 1998.  

Give us a plug if you can. 


--Ray Kuhlmann
PO. Box 1155                      Lake Forest, CA 92630
Tel: (714) 859-6160         Message/Fax: (714) 859-7280!?Body=Excellent%20solution!%20
A random choice from my sig files. 
Collect them all--Over 86 served since 1995!  

***  NEW POST - Dealing With Bounces  ***

From: William Greene 
Subject: RE: Dealing With Bounces

As Grizzard has begun moving more decidedly into internet 
marketing, one of the areas we are presently plumbing is 
maintenance and marketing of email newsletters (which is 
why *I'm* on this one - you learn from the best!). Apart 
from our own weekly newsletter (Dr. Response's Direct 
Marketing Tip of the Week), we are in the process of 
possibly "taking the helm" of a rather large (3,500 users) 
one-way newsletter  from a'net-savvy non-profit organization.

To perhaps assist in answering "Dreamer's" question on 
mail bounces, we've found an excellent - and FREE - piece 
of software which automates the whole process of bounces 
and more. Called "SmartBounce", it bills itself as "the 
world's first general-purpose automated bounce handler 
for mailing lists," and it works with LetterRip, ListProc, 
LISTSERV, ListSTAR, Majordomo, Macjordomo, NTlists, and 
a number of others, including lists that don't use an 
automated server. It also runs on Macintosh, Unix, and 
Windows platforms.

The "Lite" version is free; the "Pro" version (for 
larger lists) is anywhere from $90 to $600, depending 
on platform and usage.

(And, for the record, I have *no* affiliation with Orion 
Software, the makers of this product - it's just a good 
product that could prove useful to list members!)

Hope this helps!

William Greene, Director of Internet Marketing
Grizzard - A Direct Marketing Agency Since 1919
"How Do You Know Your Marketing Budgets Are 
Working As Hard As They Could?"

***  NEW POST - Dealing With Bounces  ***

From: Rick Smith 
Subject: Dealing With Bounces

Dave Thuillier wrote -

>>I've been trying to follow this as I am trying to start
>>a new mailing list using the Pagasus email client. I've 
>>only sent out two posts to my list and on both occasions 
>>have had bounces.<<

Gary's advice about handling bounces was right on.  
Unfortunately, none of the e-mail clients I'm aware of do 
a very good job of handling bounces with respect to 
managing your subscriber lists.  To that end, I'm 
considering writing a small software utility that would 
link to Pegasus mailing lists and folders.  I'm 
definitely going to do this for my own use.  But since 
you brought this up, I'm curious to know if there's any 
interest for such a product among the list members.

Rick Smith, "The Guerrilla Computer Consultant"
+++ Free Newsletter Shows You How To Competition +++
+++          Proof Your Business in 180 Days     +++
Small business owners, subscribe now to Rick's free online
newsletter to learn how to competition proof your business.
Send any e-mail to 

***  [Moderator's Comments]  ***

Hi Dave,

I know that I could sure use a utility such as you describe.
It would make Pegasus a much better product.



 The Corkboard

From: Postmaster 
Subject: Re: Iworld

I attended the IWorld NY too.  It was big, but I felt a 
feeling of 'wow, but so what'.  I was hoping to see more 
voice recognition stuff there.  At Comdex Fall there was 
alot of voice stuff.  I personally think the Net (i.e. 
web sites) will eventually be searched, etc via voice.  
And at IWorld, there was none.  

What I did see was alot of push of targeted mailings, opt 
in emailings...etc.  Looking at the booths, etc I 
definitley got the feeling that the net has officially 
broken into two.  Big corp and small unfinanced guys.  

That was my take.


Jason Wolfe
Happy Holidays!!
The Internet Coupon Directory
Targeted Email Delivery with proven results
Accepting select advertisers.
Tel:(412) 621-6881  Fax:(412) 621-2625

 Question of the Week

Last Week's QOTW:

"How do you balance your advertising budget?"

I will post results in next Monday's issue.  There 
will be no QOTW this week as most folks are too busy 
with the holidays to respond.  



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