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The eMarketing Digest
© 1996 - 2008
Library of Congress
ISSN 1522-6913

Published by
Webbers Communications
686 Keene Rd. Suite B
Winchester, NH 03470
603-392-0090

 The E-Marketing Digest
 Volume #2,Issue #162
 April 17, 1998
 ------------------------
 Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications
 N. Conway, NH 03860    http://www.webbers.com   (603)447-1024

 Put the EMD Member's Button on your website.  Declare your 
 pride in participation while helping to build EMD circulation.
 http://www.webbers.com/emark/button.html
                                                           
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

 Subscribe to our sister publication, The E-Tailer's Digest
 Discussing both online and offline retailing methods.
 Web: http://www.gapent.com/etailer/

 ----------------------------------------------------------------


 Table of Contents

 + New Topics

    "Bandwidth Watch"
       - Roy Hinkelman
       - Moderator's Comments

 + Ongoing

    "E-commerce Solutions"
       - Benjamin Yoskovitz
       - Moderator's Comments

    "Newsgroup Marketing"
       - Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer
       - Moderator's Comments
       - John Gerits
       - Moderator's Comments
       - Klaus Arnhold
       - Moderator's Comments
       - John Watkins
       - Moderator's Comments

    "Affiliate Programs"
       - Cheryl C. Ho
       - Moderator's Comments
       - John Gerits
       - Gary K. Foote

    "Charging for Information Online"
       - John Gerits
       - Moderator's Comments
       - Tom Kulzer
       - Moderator's Comments

    "The Customer is King"
       - Amit Malik
       - Moderator's Comments

 + Website Issues

    "Server Side Includes (Was 'Include Tag')"
       - Klaus Arnhold
       - Moderator's Comments
       - Roy Hinkelman

 + E-mail Corner

    "Promoting a List"
       - Klaus Arnhold

    "Spam Definition"
       - Jose Daccach
       - Moderator's Comments

 + In The News

    "ListEx Closed"
       - Gary K. Foote

 + The Corkboard

    "Small Business Help for Year 2000 Problem"
       - Posted by Gary K. Foote

 + Question of the Week

    "Do You Currently Market in Newsgroups?"
       - Responses
           o Andrew Loke
           o Allan Gardyne
           o Moderator's Comments

 ----------------------------------------------------------------


 --------------------
 Moderator's Comments
 --------------------

Hi All,

First, let me apologize for sending out a 43K issue yesterday.
I'm sure it caused some e-mail programs to gulp and swallow hard.
In order to continue to offer all EMD subscribers space to voice
their opinions - instead of beginning to heavily edit and/or
reject the growing number of quality posts - I will split future
large issues into two separate e-mails.  They will be clearly
marked as such in the subject to avoid confusion.

This forum is growing again and there are lots of new people
coming out of 'lurk' mode to become active participants.  I want
to thank everyone who posts here and encourage those who have not
yet posted to do so.  After all, its your participation that
gives this community value.  Can you imagine if I were the only
one posting?  Boooooorrrrring...  So, post to the list.  Its
easy.  Here's how;

 To Post to The E-Marketing Digest:      
 mailto:e-mark@buck.ncia.net

Finally:

The other day one of our subscribers posted the following to the
just-closed-today EMD Discount Pool BBS.  Never fear, there is a
new one that works quite well.  Read on...

> From: Claudia Hafling
> Subject:  Response to is this the place to offer 
> discounts to subscribers?
>
> Good question.  I clicked on discount pool, 
> then clicked on "show me the discounts" and 
> ended up in the Q-A Forum.  What happened to 
> the discount pool, where we listed discounts 
> on our services or products for EMD
> subscribers only?  I did post a discount 

-Claudia

Claudia's post pointed up the real need for a better forum for
this department than we have provided in the past.  Originally I
was adding offers manually, a practice that quickly became too
time consuming as the offers and categories grew.  Next I moved
it to its just-ended location, announcing the change here so
those with offers could repeat them in the new forum, using the
BBS software to add them rather than my spending time performing
this job manually.

The problem with that forum was that it was too user unfriendly.
The system it is located on and the software it is running under
was never intended for the use I put it too.  The 'difference
made a difference' I guess because there have been many confused
users lately and very few offers being made.

To remedy this situation I have used the Delphi Free Forum
feature to create a brand new EMD Discount Pool that is clearly
navigable and easy to use.  The new, and planned-to-be permanent
URL is;

http://forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=emddiscountpool

NOTE:  You will be required to become a member to use the
Discount Pool.  This is necessary to keep it available only to
EMD subscribers.  The process is short and free.  You will need
the following "Group Registration Code" to join;

emd

You will only have to use this registration code to join, not
each time you visit the Discount Pool.

I have also added my own discount offer.  Please stop by and
repeat your previous offer or add a new one.  Let's save each
other some $$$.

And now, on with the show...

Your Moderator,

         ------ FREE STUFF FOR INTERNET MARKETERS ------
GKF      mailto:gkfoote@webbers.com?Subject=webbers.info
         -----------------------------------------------


 ----------
 New Topics
 ----------


***  FIRST TOPIC - Bandwidth Watch  ***


From: rhink@texas.net
Subject: bandwidth watch

I'm looking for sites that track companies working to provide
high internet bandwidth in the coming years. Is their a
'bandwidth watch' site that anyone knows of?

Roy Hinkelman

Syndicated Marketing Products........ http://CompassIS.com
.......Put our FREE site directory on your website!.......
1-888-262-9676..................mailto:rhink@CompassIS.com


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi Roy,

I think the future of high-bandwidth internet connection
availability will be split, tho not necessarily evenly, between
satellite uplink providers and cable-based service providers.
The infrastructure for the latter is already in place across most
of the US.  I wonder about the rest of the world - anyone?  The
answer to this question might point to the answer to which way
the majority of users will eventually go.

Also, I don't know of any sites looking at this future trend -
anyone else?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


 -------
 Ongoing
 -------


**  FIRST TOPIC - E-Commerce Solutions  ***


From: Benjamin Yoskovitz 
Subject: Re: E-Commerce Solutions

Most e-commerce packages that are "reasonably" priced have
definite faults that often cannot be overlooked by consumers and
developers alike.  The primary difficulty with e-commerce
software is that the packages are often very limiting in what you
can do.  If you ever want some type of feature that is not
included in a software package, forget it...

iCAT for example, claims to have many features, but everything is
basically preset.  So it takes about 30 minutes to setup an
online store, but try changing/customizing anything, and you're
talking months. iCAT even has a "Carbo language" which it claims
can be used to customize anything in the package, or add
anything.  But this requires learning a new programming language,
which can be very difficult for a regular consumer.

Now I'm not picking on iCAT specifically, because I have reviewed
a number of e-commerce packages, and none of them seem to be
flexible and truly easy to use.  (I haven't ever reviewed any of
the very expensive products, so I can't speak about those at all
really).

If I were building a shopping cart program, unless the client is
looking for something very similar and doesn't anticipate any
need for many future developments/additions, I would build
something from scratch, that is tailored to the client's needs,
and easier to manipulate at a later date.

If anyone wants to continue this discussion on the Web, please
visit Net Worth's e-commerce discussion forum at:

http://www.meep.com/magazine/biz/ecom/index.html

Sincerely,

Benjamin Yoskovitz
meep! media inc. - web and intranet development
http://www.meep.com
benjamin@meep.com


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi Benjamin,

There must be some kind of web interface e-commerce solution
already available that offers ease of use, rapid setup, shopping
cart functions, flexible and simple to use updating functions and
the like.  I think that the following company offers most of
these.  They also offer merchant accounts.

21st Century Resources
http://www.21cr.com/ccserv/ccserv.cgi

Your moderator,

Gary K. Foote




   ==============================================================
   Put the EMD Member's Button on your website.  Declare your 
   pride in participation while helping to build EMD circulation.
   http://www.webbers.com/emark/button.html
   ==============================================================




***  NEXT TOPIC - Newsgroup Marketing  ***


From: "Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer" 
Subject: Re: Usenet Marketing

There was a time, long ago, when I greatly favored marketing via
usenet. Now, marketing via a discussion list will always take
precedence over usenet.  That does not mean that usenet has been
completely ruled out; it's simply not the priority outlet -- or
means of communication to us any longer. One of the drawbacks we
saw, and continue to see, with the usenet world is that unless
you utilize a method to protect your email address (adding an
extra character, for example), a posting will guarantee an
increase in your spam.  The question then becomes -- did the
posting generate sufficient revenue or whatever was the goal to
offset the costs incurred directly or indirectly in dealing with
the spam increase. 

Next, the community created within the usenet world is quite
different from the community created within a discussion list --
or a forum through one of the online services.  We are of the
mind that people don't join (in the case of The Simple Society)
or buy from total strangers -- at least in the majority of
instances. The sense of community created with a discussion group
or online service forum tends to be much stronger than that found
on the usenet arena.  Names tend to become known.  Skills tend to
become apparent -- over time and through the ongoing
discusssions.  This doesn't seem to occur at the same level on
usenet.  Their people flit in and flit out.  Consequently, we see
results generated at a much higher level, although the work
required is higher, on discussion groups and in the online
service forums.  While I'm no longer a mega-fan of CompuServe, we
continue to keep our membership there because of the value
received.  A sense of family, long-term participation by members
of individual forums, occurs there and we believe it is what
impacts on our results.

Gary is right in that "selling" via any of these methods demands
that valuable content, often content we have sold in the off-line
world, be offered.  A direct request or offer does not work
within these forums. That is not a cast-in-iron rule, however.
An offer of a free newsletter to a targeted group can pull
tremendously.  And then one, of course, uses the newsletter to
bring the receiver further down that sales tube, closer to
closure.  

I wonder if others experiences with usenet echo ours?

Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer
Online PR/Marketing and webbie work, of course
CFNA, Inc.: PR/Marketing for 25 years
email: cfna@pullman.com


[Moderator's Comments]


Thanks for your comments, Sunni.  I'm interested in how many
others here have multiple accounts with online services like
CompuServ, AOL, Prodigy, et al.  I use the AOL Instant Messenger
service, but do not subscribe to AOL.  I used to be a Prodigy
subscriber, but that was years ago.  I must admit, in this
respect my online presence is one-dimensional.  Hmmmm...

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  NEXT POST - SAME TOPIC  ***


From: John Gerits 
Subject: Re: Marketing in Newsgroups


I think that it might be safe to "assume" that most business
people, especially new ones to the Internet when thinking of NGs
think of the "biz" hierarchy and maybe the "alt" hierarchy. And
of course that is logical and also why there is so much mlm/get
rich, etc. in the biz NG hierarchy. The biz hierarchy is moving
to clean up by turning unmoderated NGs into moderated ones.

The "Big 8" hierarchies (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, talk,
sci, soc) are where one needs to look to reach one's target. And
I mean moderated or low spam unmoderated NGs (in alt and biz,
there are a few possibilities).

No one thinks to look for business NGs in the misc.* hierarchy. I
wouldn't  either but that is the way it's set up. But outside the
business NGs, there are many NGs where one's target market
participate or lurk (consumer, biz, hobby, animal lovers, etc.).

Krishnan J Iyer writes:

> Not just mirroring the posts of NG. But being more pro-active
> and easy to handle than the existing method. 

I don't know how you access NGs, but there are easy ways that
compare to getting your email list posts.

My NG articles are in reach and take me all of a few minutes to
obtain. As I download my email, my program also downloads the
articles in the NGs I subscribe to.

> We have the mailing list software where we sub/unsub
> from NG and post/participate in discussions. 

I do the same with the software I use for NGs; using "Agent";

http://www.forteinc.com

...or their free version "Free Agent" rather than
waste time reading with a browser or MS News (or whatever it is
called these days).

> My views are based on the belief that email discussion groups
> are more proactive, time saving, and to the point since
> moderators are visible. 

I'm visible, I take part in discussions when I have time and also
steer when there is a need.

The proactive participation is very good in the NGs I follow and
also the ones I moderate... What can take away from proactive
participation is if the NG is moderated due to the articles first
coming to the moderator, but it is no different than this digest
or others. Moderators usually turn around once a day if not more,
so it's just a few hours delay from mailing lists. Of course, if
you post in a unmoderated low spam NGs, discussion can be like as
fast as a mailing list.

Some NGs do have a mailing list added value service, if you will.
I even offered such a service, but very few people on the list
posted to the discussions.

GKF writes: 
> This method of adding value to a NG is the only way to go. 
> Never - I repeat - N.E.V.E.R. post anything like;

Absolutely! NGs are a different animal than digests/lists. Why?

 -NGs: public forums. Digests/lists are privately owned.

 -NGs: Moderator to move traffic, keep noise out, maybe also talk
shop. Digest/lists: Moderator may have an interest in subject,
but there is also the fact that a digest/list can serve as a
promotional vehicle for the moderator's business. And it can
evolve into a product such as I-Sales has. IMHO, because of this,
digests/list will be a bit easier as to participants' exposure,
more relaxed about their promotion, and thus the readership is
more tolerant of it. Contrary in a moderated NG, readership knows
promotion is not accepted to the degree as on digests/lists and
thus participation seems to be more discussion/assisting focused
and promotion secondary (mainly by sig) But, I get many
participants; new and regular that use no sig..compared to
digests/lists where there are always sigs.

> Ethical NG marketing takes a lot of time and care.
> You have to _get to know the NG before you participate_ 
> and offer before you expect to get back. 

Yes and offer a lot (substance, meat) before you receive a
return. Lurk before you jump in. NGs, is very much 1:1 marketing
with hard work.

Read the NG's charter and FAQ first. And ask the moderator, we
are glad to answer question and make your participation enjoyable
and leading to bearing fruit. 
 
> .. How does one avoid being the target of spammers who parse
> addresses from Usenet while still participating? 

I mentioned previously, spam blocks in the address, but it is not
a perfect protection. I hate spam and I get 50-75 spams per day
(personal and for the NGs). I don't download them...If i did, I'd
give up moderating and participating in NGs. Rather, I use a spam
killer program that just deletes off the post server and sends a
nice auto-reply message to the one's with no fake address.

How do you avoid the telemarketing calls (before the no-contact
list) How do you avoid the sales people that cold call your
office (not letting them in still takes time).

IMHO, if you want another place to reach your target, and that
place is NGs, getting spam is the cost...but you can minimize the
spam as well as your anger :-)

John Gerits
--
G e r i t s - K n e e f e l  &  A s s o c i a t e s
        Strategic Management & Marketing Consulting
                    Will you be around tomorrow?
        mailto:gerits@dakine.demon.nl  ICQ#: 7900814
Moderator: news:misc.business.marketing.moderated
           news:misc.entrepreneurs.moderated


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi John,

Thanks once again for sharing your considerable knowledge of NGs
with us.  I too have used hierarchies other than the .biz to good
effect.  The NG marketing I wrote about in the last issue was
mostly done in the .rec hierarchy as that was where my market
was.

BTW - John carries his ICQ number in his .sig file.  From
personal experience I know he has his software running and ready
for contact whenever he is online.  I too am constantly ICQ
enabled, but do not publish my number.  Instead I use a 'control
panel', available for use by anyone, whether they have ICQ or
not, as a 'pager'.  I wonder how many others here are ICQ users
and how important it is to their daily contact with the online
community.  Also, how do individuals integrate this type of
technology into your online contact mix?  Anyone?

And now, back to NGs...

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  SAME TOPIC - NEXT POST  ***


From: "K. Arnhold" 
Subject: Anti-Spam in Usenet

Moderator asked:

* You pose a succinct description of a hot issue.  How does one
* avoid being the target of spammers who parse addresses from
* Usenet while still participating?  Anyone have any ideas?

Gary,

Under no circumstances use your original mailaccount as your
Usenet posting address within your newsreader. First get one of
these forwarding addresses like from "bigfoot.com". Which is
probably the best as they have a very good spam filtering
solution installed. Let this forwarding address point directly to
/DEV/NULL e. g. some trash account.

Second is put an email address under your name *within* the
posting which is a bit longer than usual :-), as for example

karnhold@netpromotions.de.delete.this

That did the job for me.

======> Klaus Arnhold NETPROMOTIONS - Always on Target <======
http://netpromotions.de/ - We localize your pages in Germany!
Web Promotion - Internet Advertising - PR - CD-ROM Duplicating
   Ueberblick per Mail ==> mailto:services@netpromotions.de


[Moderator's Comments]


Thanks Klaus.  I will be using your strategies when I go back to
UseNET marketing beginning next week.  Does anyone else have
other strategies to offer for avoiding this unwanted side effect
of UseNET participation?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  SAME TOPIC - NEXT POST  ***


From: The Simple Society 
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Marketing

On 4/15, someone named Gary K. Goote :-) wrote
>
>Ethical NG marketing takes a lot of time and care.  You have to
>_get to know the NG before you participate_ and offer before you
>expect to get back.  NG marketing is a direction I 
> have neglected
>lately...  a practice I plan to change.  Perhaps others here who
>have made the same resolution.  I suspect we will see that shift
>occurring more amongst this group.

We don't always choose our activities according to what is most
productive, but that's one criterion. Why have you neglected it?
Given those reasons, why switch back?

John Watkins, Executive Director     The Simple Society
mailto:johnw@simsoc.org   http://simsoc.org

FREE--a subscription to Simple Solutions: the Email newsletter
that proves there are simpler solutions to major public problems.
mailto:join-simple_solutions@gs2.revnet.com


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi John,

Thanks for your thoughts.  You mentioned;

> We don't always choose our activities 
> according to what is most productive

Nor do we at Webbers, but we do focus on making money as our
primary goal.  After all, if a business doesn't make money it is
not a business.  The goals we were discussing were
business-process related so I only referred to aspects of that
process.  

Certainly there are business-like organizations, like The Simple
Society, whose goals are not for-profit related, rather they are
humanistic in nature.  Your goals in promotion would be more
along the lines of growing your membership base, with member's
fees going towards more promotion to build an even larger
membership, as well as being used to move the organization's
stated mission forward.

> Why have you neglected it?

My target market changed and I found other avenues to be more
fruitful with this new focus.

> Given those reasons, why switch back?

Because the aforementioned fruitful avenues are now solidly in
place and moving smoothly, leaving time to turn our attention to
widening our efforts into areas with generally less return...
but return nonetheless.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  NEXT TOPIC - Affiliate Programs  ***


From: "Cheryl C. Ho" 
Subject: Re: Affiliate Programs

Dear all:

In response to Terry's recent posting, and as a representative of
LinkShare, I'd like to add some of my own thoughts to his
comments, as
well as address some of his issues.

> Targetting is
> > poor in the case of Link Share (meat seller in computer
> > section) with little information provided as to how they
> > actually track sales! Proprietary Software tells me
> > nothing! Am I supposed to blindly follow and take their
> > word for it? I think not!

When we initially launched our Network, we allowed our member
merchants the discretion to classify themselves in the categories
that they felt were most appropriate.  We have found, however,
that many merchants elected to classify themselves under 'All,'
resulting in the 'meat seller in computer section' scenario.  We
have realized that this causes a problem for our member affiliate
sites in locating appropriate merchants.  As such, we will be
implementing tighter controls in this area when we sign new
merchants into the Network.  We appreciate your comments, and in
fact, I would like to take this opportunity to get feedback and
suggestions from anyone who is currently using LinkShare. And if
you're not using LinkShare for your affiliate relationships, your
reasons for not doing so would be greatly appreciated.

Additionally, to clarify LinkShare's proprietary software, our
software rests on the commerce engines of the merchants who sign
up for The LinkShare Network so that the transaction information
is extracted at the point of sale and attributed to the correct
site.  Our system does not rely on cookies but rather a
patent-pending Referral, Tracking and Payment (RTP) technology
that tracks a user through code generated by The LinkShare
Network(tm) and the software residing on the merchant's commerce
engine.

> I do agree with George totally when he says that most are >
just another form of banner advertising. 

I have to disagree with both George and Terry.  LinkShare has
tried to promote innovative linking arrangements that go beyond
banner advertising.  Links may be banner, icon, or text-based. In
fact, it appears that the textual links embedded in content have
been more effective.

> To my way of thinking content and product have to be > tied
closely together to get maximum value from > affiliations. 

I wholeheartedly agree with Terry's comment above. At LinkShare,
we encourage our member merchants to share content and marketing
materials with affiliate sites. We feel that a successful
affiliates program does not depend solely upon the sheer number
of sites participating in any one program.  A successful
affiliates program is created when both merchants and member
sites understand the other's needs and work together to achieve
the common goal of promoting sales online. As such, LinkShare has
recently developed new profiling and targeting technologies for
understanding consumers, and to make it easier for both merchants
and sites to work together to target them with the products that
they are most likely to purchase.

With so many merchants now establishing affiliates programs of
their own, I'd like to just add my view (maybe slightly biased)
of a 'network' affiliates program. Not only does a merchant
joining the Network obtain immediate access to thousands of sites
interested in such arrangements, but the affiliate sites benefit
from access to currently over 80 merchants, one central location
to check activity on a real time basis, and one consolidated
statement to deal with.

Best regards,

Cheryl C. Ho
LinkShare Corporation
http://www.linkshare.net
The Software. The Network. The Solution


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi Cheryl,

Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail to this
forum.  I expect you will hear from our readers in response to
your request for their feedback on your service.  I would like to
ask those who do respond to direct their e-mail to Cheryl's
address (see above) rather than using this forum to fine-tune any
single service.  I would, however, like to invite Cheryl to keep
us up to date on their improvements to their system, both what
has been changed and, maybe even more importantly, why.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  SAME TOPIC - NEXT POST  ***


From: John Gerits 
Subject: Re: Affiliate Programs


Affiliate programs are hot at the moment, springing up like wild
flowers, or maybe even as weeds.

Just about everyone is focused on the aggregate potential and of
course, logical dictates, so don't blame them. However, if your
circle is small, or you are not really reaching your target
market with your core online business, it's going to get
frustrating... the shares are small, and maybe to the point;
"hey, you order via my link and I'll order via your link"

Certainly, the small revenue can be used for small costs as
another poster mentioned, but if you need to promote all your
affiliate programs you might consider using that time first for
your core business and also generating traffic in general.

I also certainly agree with the poster and with GKF that your
affiliate programs tie into your target market and as GKF says
"complementary to our own objectives". And not just because you
see $ signs.
 
I've not brought my business online yet, but am examining the
possibility of offering an affiliate program, but not open to
just everyone. Rather, offer a higher payout to a select few that
can deliver.
 
IMHO, I think we will see this more and more setup by small
business.

Let the big dogs focus on their mass marketing tactics on the
Net, and offer chicken feed. Certainly, lots of chicken feed can
fatten you up, just a matter of what you want.

John Gerits
--
G e r i t s - K n e e f e l  &  A s s o c i a t e s
        Strategic Management & Marketing Consulting
                    Will you be around tomorrow?
        mailto:gerits@nijenrode.nl  ICQ#: 7900814


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi John,

You wrote important words when you wrote the following;

> offer a higher payout to a select few

The Webbers Communications Web Design Affiliate Program, (whew...
say *that* three times, fast) being unveiled here in this
comment, is designed after just this principle.  Our affiliates
will not likely make high-volume sales, though some
pre-announcement affiliates are selling one site a week, but
instead they have the potential to earn hundreds of dollars on
each sale.

High Payout + Selective Affiliate Criteria = Strong sales from
affiliates.

Thos interested in complete info on the Webbers Communications
Web Design Affiliate Program may go to the following URL;

http://www.webbers.com/affiliate.html

BTW - We are not linking this page to or from any others, so
please do not offer it in your literature or on your site.  We
would like to control just when and where offers to apply to
become an affiliate are published so we can track responses
easily.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  NEXT TOPIC - Charging for Information Online  ***


From: John Gerits 
Subject: Re: Charging for Information Online

John has tried it with I-Sales, Adam with I-Advertising, as have
countless others. Ray has found the making with Intl-biz, but
indirectly. Gary has never tried but then he has a "marketing"
digest :-)

People too cheap? Maybe, but perhaps the real reason is;, why pay
to receive a digest you participate in, when the cost of the
digest can be carried by advertising... 

But IMHO, the reason might be very simple..turning a free
publication or product into a paid one, doesn't work. It does not
work offline so why expect it to work online...moving up market
from free does not exist. The best you can do, is add (value)
something to it like what Ray has done and what John is trying to
do, with a co-op. There lies the potential for an added revenue
stream for e-pubs. But it will be a slow builder..

But even continued add value to an existing e-pub will be a slow
or no go. Rather, the other option is to introduce a "premium"
digest or other e-pub that for the most part will mean another
market... Still a very difficult thing to do at this time, but
will happen more and more and I suspect will also be a slow
process to build paid subscriptions, but I think the right
formula/concept will emerge soon. I'm talking from the little
dogs here and not players with paid subscriptions like Wall
Street Journal and a few other.

Michael S. DeVries:

> Do you think that if you did "cut them off" that they'd "cough
> up" at least something?  You could use the "This is your last
> issue ... " like they do with your magazine subscriptions,
right?

Here you are talking about a trial, rather than a total free
magazine subscription and then asking them to pay...not going to
happen.

Look for the EMD Gold edition coming to cyber newsstand soon :-)

John Gerits
--
G e r i t s - K n e e f e l  &  A s s o c i a t e s
        Strategic Management & Marketing Consulting
                    Will you be around tomorrow?
        mailto:gerits@dakine.demon.nl  ICQ#: 7900814


[Moderator's Comments]

Hey John!

I like the sound of that...  "the EMD Gold edition".  We could
ask $39.95 per year and offer certain services along with your
subscription.  Like free access to our Hawiian Lunch Buffet Bar,
or free tire changes within 25 miles of our publishing office.
Well...  no, I guess not.  ;->

Seriously though, there is a kernel of reality to the above.
Adding premium services to paid subscribers is what I-Sales is
attempting.  We'll just wait and see what happens there before
building that Hawiian Lunch Bar.

Your moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  SAME TOPIC - NEXT POST  ***


From: Tom Kulzer 
Subject: Re: Charging for Information Online


Michael S. DeVries wrote:

>They think it is of significant value, right? They don't want to
>lose it, right? But they won't pay anything for it ??? Even when
>most print media is >=$10 per year and many people don't bother
>to ever read it, right?  And with an e-media you could print

I believe e-"publications" fall into two distinctive 
categories that readers may place more $$ value on 
than others.

Newsletters - They require an editor to spend time and
possibly money to produce for readers.  They either write
articles, include articles from others, or hire people
to write them.  All of the value derived from the 
publication comes directly from the efforts of the editor.

Discussion Forums - These are forums similar to E-Marketing,
I-Sales, IA, and many others.  As the moderator of a forum
like this I can personally tell you it takes a lot of time
to put together the digest that you read.  In the established
forums the discussions usually lead themselves but when you
have a new publication you often have to find content to
spur the discussions.  I believe that readers are less likely
to pay for this type of publication.  Simply because much
of the value is derived from the collective knowledge of
the group.  If you have fewer subscribers you have less
knowledge therefor it has less value.

Just my $.02

Best Regards,
Tom Kulzer


 --))    FREE Interactive Entrepreneur Profiler   ((--
 ----))       http://www.electsuccess.com       ((----


[Moderator's Comments]


Hi Tom,

Thanks for posting.  Of course, there are also the unmoderated
forums, but they will never generate revenue unless the
readership is very high.  In that case a list owner might sell
ads that get added to each list post.  Certainly not a big money
generator.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  NEXT TOPIC - "The Customer is King"  ***


From:             "Amit Malik 
Subject:          The Customer is King

Gary,

Ref: Our pay-after-delivery-after-you-like-it-policy.

You wrote:

> Sounds like you have taken the motto "The Customer is King", to
> heart.  I suspect it will work as well as it has in 
> more traditional
> marketplaces.  My only concern would 
> be that some may take advantage
> of such a broad return policy.  Does this 
> concern you too?  How have
> you addresses this within your policy?

It does concern us, but not to the extent that we would not
practise a genuine policy for the genuine buyer out there.

We cannot show our prospect a sample piece of how the "product"
would look like (since we are in the service industry) and hence
we think it is only fair that we should give the customer a
chance to say "thanks, but no thanks" IF they don't like it.

One can do this - only when one is sure of the quality and
standard of work one produces. And that is exactly what we want
to reflect.

"Customer is the King" and why not?

As far as the case of some people taking undue advantage of such
a 
broad return policy is concerned... a logo or a product package 
design is not something which one can hide in a bank or one's
house.

One uses it and promotes it continously as part of a positive 
message/ brand building excercise. It would simply destroy one's
entire credibility once people come to know that it's a copyright
infringement. 

I agree one cannot duplicate these policies for a product as
losses could get too high, but, at the end of the day, if you can
sit down hard and think about how you can minimize the risk the
customer takes in ordering a product/ service from you, one would
arrive as not only a "marketing pro" but also as "the people's
choice."

Best Wishes,
Amit. 

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[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Amit,

I recently read an article about turning unhappy customers into
'rabid' fans.  The technique described offered steps for dealing
with a customer with a problem.  The first thing on the list was
to 'listen and listen well'.  Let the customer know you
understand the problem and ask what remedy they would like to see
implemented.  Then promise a delivery date and *beat it by days*.

I submit that your method will cut out the necessity of having to
deal with unhappy customers as they are never 'at risk' in the
first place.  Your price may be high in terms of potential
man-hours wasted, but if it works, who am I to argue with
success?

Your moderator,

Gary K. Foote


 --------------
 Website Issues
 --------------


***  FIRST TOPIC - Server Side Includes - Correction  ***


From: "K. Arnhold" 
Subject: Server Side Includes - Correction

Sorry folks,

first time I need to comment myself :-). I made a mistake 
within my last posting:
 
 * http://www.yourdomain.com"
 * 
 * which automaticly includes the page's url.

which is wrong. 

The correct SSI-Tag to have the page's URL printed is this:

http://www.yourdomain.com
                                                   ^
Please note that there MUST NOT be any space between ".com" and
"