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 The E-Marketing Digest
 Volume #2,Issue #163
 April 20, 1998
 Gary K. Foote, Moderator

 The E-Marketing Digest is published by Webbers Communications
 N. Conway, NH 03860   (603)447-1024

  Put the EMD Member's Button on your website.  Declare your 
  pride in participation while helping to build circulation.

 Table of Contents

 + New Topics

    Internet Shopping Malls - Effective or Not ??"
       - Richard Hauf
       - Moderator's Comments

 + Ongoing

    "Charging for Information Online"
       - Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer
       - Moderator's Comments

    "Affiliate Programs"
       - Christopher Myatt
       - Moderator's Comments
       - Paul "the soarING" Siegel
       - Moderator's Comments

    "Alternatives to Search Engines"
       - Michael S. DeVries
       - Moderator's Comments

 + Website Issues

    "The Future of High-Bandwidth Connections"
       - Joshua Reimer
       - Moderator's Comments

 + E-mail Corner

 + In The News

 + The Corkboard

    "Cornell News: better web search"
       - Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer

 + Last Week's Question of the Week
    "Do You Currently Market in Newsgroups?"
       - Final Tally
       - Responses
          o Dave Thuillier

 + This Week's Question of the Week

    "Do you do your own online marketing, do you 
     use a service, or do you use both methods?"


 Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

First, we had a 1% response rate to last week's QOTW, the best
turnout yet.  Let's see if we can reach a 2% response rate to
this week's QOTW, ".

Don't forget, the brand new EMD Discount Pool located at;

You will be asked to register the first time you visit.  The
Group Registration Code for New Members is 'emd' (without the
quotes).  You will need it to successfully register the first -
and only the first - time you arrive at the EMD Discount Pool.  


 New Topics

***  FIRST TOPIC - Internet Shopping Malls
                   Effective or Not ??  ***

From: "ShopSafe" 
Subject: Internet Shopping Malls - Effective or Not ??

Hello - 

I have been preparing this post for some time now in response to 
negative comments that have been expressed lately concerning the 
effectiveness of internet malls as marketing tools for internet 
retailers and service providers.

Being the president of one of the internet's fastest-growing
shopping directories - ShopSafeMall...

( is critically important for internet retailers to have
realistic expectations about what they are getting when they join
an internet mall. I believe the basis of much of the negativity
is unrealistic expectations by the merchant. How will my site
traffic increase after joining? Will I sell a lot more products
after I join? These are just a few of the questions that we
encounter on a daily basis. The bottom line is if the merchant
site has a unique product to sell, if their website is
aesthetically-pleasing, easy to navigate, and consumer-friendly,
their conversion rate should be high. Listing of their site in an
internet mall will not necessarily increase their conversion rate
versus what they achieve now, especially if their site is of poor
quality. What an internet mall listing should provide though is a
substantial increase in traffic to the merchant site, and should
do so at a very cost-effective rate. You are basically paying for

This increase in traffic is especially important to new sites or
sites that are just not generating enough traffic. It is all a
numbers game! For example, if your retail site generates 100
visitors per day and you factor in a modest 1% conversion rate,
you may expect to sell 1 unit per day. Increase your site traffic
ten-fold, say to 1,000 visitors per day, and you can expect to
sell 10 units. The more traffic you can bring, the more sales you
should generate.

Here are several tips for internet retailers and service
providers that may be considering a mall listing:

First and most importantly, if your website is already equipped
with a shopping cart program and you currently process your own
credit card orders, DO NOT join a mall in which you are paying a
premium for these services. You do not need them and should not
pay for them. 

Secondly, determine exactly how your site will be listed in their
mall. DO NOT join a mall that captures visitors to your site in a
mall "frame" whereby the visitor will be distracted by the frame
they are trapped in. Choose a mall that allows a potential
customer to your site to click-through to your site completely
and not be trapped in the mall frame. You paid for the visitor.

Third, ask the mall for traffic statistics for their site. It is
quite obvious that the objective is to list in a mall that has
the highest amount of traffic for the lowest cost. Make sure your
site can be listed in the category you choose and that you have
the ability to change that listing should you choose. 

Fourth, find out how the mall advertises. DO NOT accept answers
such as free banner exchanges, reciprocal links, etc. If you are
paying for a listing you should expect that the site runs paid
advertising campaigns and returns a good portion of the merchant
lease fee into paid advertising for the site.

Finally, contact the mall manager and ask lots of history, business plan objectives,
advertising means, referrals. E-mail or contact the referrals
they provide and solicit their feedback both positive and

When developing  the ShopSafeMall (
over the past 1 1/2 years, our primary objective was to learn by
others mistakes and industry feedback. We spoke with many
internet malls and internet retailers and learned a great deal.
We choose the name "ShopSafeMall" since it implied a safe
shopping environment for our customers. We do not provide
shopping cart programs, nor do we provide credit card processing.
It is up to our merchant sites to have and apply these programs.
This allows us to feature internet retailers in our shopping
directory for a fraction of the cost of traditional "cybermalls". 

We would be glad to provide further discussion of this issue at
any time.

Best of luck for continued business success to all.

Richard Hauf

Over 90 of the internet's finest retailers and
growing everyday....only at the ShopSafeMall !

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the wealth of good advice in your post.  Lots of our
readers are in the business of selling products online and either
have already, or are considering soon joining, an online mall to
boost traffic to their sites.  I hope every one of them heeds the
general message you offer, "Know what you are buying *before you
buy*.  Too many people jump in first and ask questions later.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  FIRST TOPIC - Charging for Information Online  ***

From: "Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer" 
Subject: Re: Charging for Information Online

Hello All:

I have been reading carefully the posts made by my associates
regarding this issue of whether or not recipients of an emailed
newsletter that, according to survey results, they rank A+ will
be willing to convert to a paid subscription, even if the fee
charged is as low as $5/year. I noted the comment regarding the
difficulty of off-line conversion of a free pub to a fee pub.  As
I have been involved in not only book production and marketing,
but also national magazine and newsletter production and
launches, I concur on the comments re: conversion.  We were
successful, though, in two conversions in the offline world of
free pubs to fee pubs, although it took quite a bit of PR work to
pull it off. Additionally, the editorial content was material not
available elsewhere in the market.  It doesn't take a brain
surgeon to realize that that was instrumental in effecting the

While it would be of great interest, at least to me personally,
to conduct an even more in-depth survey on the highly bonded dog
owner audience that subscribes free to our emailed newsletter,
the particular survey conducted was quite thorough and the
response rate exceeded statistical norms. The open-ended comments
piqued most of my curiosity about the emotional reaction of this
audience to shelling out a few dollars per year for continued
receipt of a pub delivered via email.   There is no doubt in my
mind that this particular audience is comprised of persons who
spend a considerable amount of money on their pets each year  --
product as well as information.  That's not particularly
surprising as the research has for many  years demonstrated that
highly bonded and/or what we refer to as "active" pet owners'
expenditures exceed that of parents on children (quite a shock
for many of you, hmm?)  That constraint aside, the next issue
became perceived value.  As a result of the survey, there is also
no doubt in my mind as to perceived value of content.  Some went
so far as to send separate emails literally begging us not to
stop the emailed publication -- while that subject had not been
even broached by us.  We also had a statistically significant
number of subscribers requesting more issues per month than the
current two issues. 

Far more interesting, imho, though were the comments that if we
were to begin charging that we stop providing the pub via email
and instead provide it in printed form -- the standard mailed
newsletter. This comment -- unprovoked and unsolicited -- was
heard so many times that it seems that at least for a general
consumer audience there is some mental association being made
between value for that which is delivered via email versus value
of that delivered in snail mail.   We did offer up a "premium"
concept and once again -- if delivery was via email, no go.
Many pointed to examples online of that which is provided free --
using apples to oranges comparisons such as discussion lists,
usenet and online forums. These are not what I call Internet
citizens, people who make their living on the net, like many of
us here. They are not biz people who understand costs associated
with a publication.  What I am seeing is that a culture is being
created based upon past experience at accessing info free. 

As an aside, the other salient point I've gleaned from the survey
of our subscribers is the type of advertising that they do want.
They seek, for lack of a better word, "content" advertising.
Advertising that briefly educates them in an editorial-like
fashion, spelling out benefits but without hype or extreme push. 

We will, of course, seek out more aggressively sponsorships and
advertisers because of our survey results.  The next tasks though
appears to be convincing advertisers in such a way that we can
overcome their reluctance. This is still new territory for many
in the pet industry.

Any other thoughts, comments or continued dialogue is greatly

Sunni Freyer

~~~~~~~~C F N A,  I n c ~~~~~~~~
...........  The Online PR Agency ...........
Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer,
1.509.332.3956 Voice.............................509.334.2525 FAX
Online PR/Marketing/Business Management Services

[Moderator's Comments]

Interesting stuff, Sunni.  The most interesting to me was the
perception that something snail-mailed carries a higher intrinsic
value than one e-mailed.  I wonder how those same people would
respond to an e-mailed .PDF file? (A PDF file is one that
maintains its own formatting when e-mailed, though the recipient
must have a .PDF reader installed on their machine to view them.)
That way you could include all the graphics, formatting and other
content styles associated with snail-mail publications.  Of
course, they would still have to print it out to have a hard
copy.  Do you think this is the 'bottleneck"?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

+ w e b b e r s   c o m m u n i c a t i o n s   s u g g e s t s +
+                                                               +
+  Subscribe to our sister publication, The E-Tailer's Digest   +
+     Discussing both online and offline retailing methods.     +
+             Web:               +

***  NEXT TOPIC - Affiliate Programs  ***

From: Shezam 
Subject: Subject "Affiliate Programs"


This is my first post to the Digest.  Like everyone who runs a
commercial site I am very interested in Affiliate programs. I
have read with interest many of the programs mentioned in the
digest, by those sites offering them. I have visited some of the
sites and found no mention of the affiliate program they offer,
nor have I found a site that is a index of programs offered.
Hence the purpose of this post. I will be setting up such a site
to act as a source for affiliate programs, as well as banner
networks and the newer beyond the banner type advertising. I
recognize this digest is not for the purpose of self promotion,
but I know many of it's readers run such programs. If they are
interesting in participating I would appreciate if they email me
privately with their company name, a summery of the program
offered and their URL.

Many Thanks

Christopher Myatt

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Christopher,

Welcome aboard and thanks for posting.  Just FYI, there are
already some places online where one can go to find affiliate
programs and/or to list your own program availability.  Here is a
list of those I know about.  I'm sure others here will offer

Don't take this as discouragement, Christopher.  Your Affiliate's
Source Site just might become the leader in the industry, if it
does all the things participants wnat/need it to do for them.  In
fact, let me take this opportunity to ask everyone here, "What is
important for an Affiliate's Source Site to offer, both from the
offeror's side and from the affiliate's side of the issue?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


From: "Paul "the soarING" Siegel" 
Subject: Re: Affiliate Programs

The Rainmaker says:

> Affiliates programs sound a lot like MLM's.  
> Everybody gets hyped 
> and sells down levels, but nobody makes money.  
> IMHO, if I can't 
> $5,000 a month, it's not worth it.  Unless, 
> of course there is no 
> work on our part.   I would rather concentrate 
> on promoting our 
> business than the upline.

This is true because of the way many of these programs are run:
via a hierarchy. The guy running the program is in charge, sets
up all the rules, and collects most of the money. This is the way is run. 

Everyone uses as a model for an affiliate program. But
it's not the kind of model that I think will prevail in the
future. It's not a "community" and Amazon is not interested in
building a "community."

But most netrepreneurs seeking to affiliate want to be part of a
"community" that will help all members prosper. I put "community"
in quotation marks to distinguish it from the normal use of the
term. In a "community" each member has a voice and helps all
other members with their problems.

Live your vision,

Paul "the soarING" Siegel
Master the Internet. Subscribe to Learning Fountain Reviews
Send email to
Or visit Learning Fountains,

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your thoughts.  In fact, the idea of community
associated with affiliate programs never crossed my mind.  It has
always been a one:many or 1:1 concept for me in the past, not
many:many.  Our program offers a 1:1 relationship with each
affiliate where we give direct, personal support and information
to them by telephone or e-mail during normal business hours
Eastern Time, USA, which is where our offices are.

I like the idea of an affiliate's community very much.  I think I
will set up a list where our affiliates may get together to
discuss issues of interest to them.  It will not only help them
cross-fertilize ideas but give them a place where they can
interact with us publicly.  Good stuff.  Thanks, Paul.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

***  NEXT TOPIC - Alternatives to Search Engines  ***

From: "Michael S. & N. Lynnetta DeVries" 
Subject: [E-Mark] Re: Alternatives to Search Engines

On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:27:09 Nancy Roebke wrote:

> > ...I am a new subscriber because
> > of a personal referral from someone whose opinion I respect,
> > so... 
> See how well that works.. :)

No question! ;)

So ... how do we encourage these positive personal referrals?
IMHO the most trusted referrals are from those who do not benefit 
financially from providing them, right?

On the other hand it appears that one of the best ways to
encourage referrals is through an incentive program for providing
them, so ... Where do you think the "healthy balance" is? or are
there other alternatives?

> > How do you direct people to your site from other angles? - 
> > Sig files are my favorite way.. Getting your 
> > sig seen is what the key is..
> > Which other angles? -
> > My favorite are autoresponders and writing articles.
> > How do you establish links for these other angles?
> > Ask...

I definitely agree that all of these alternatives are good and 
certainly work.

However, each of these:

* Posting with your Sig, URL and/or autoresponder address in 
  discussion lists and newsgroups 

* Writing articles - finding e-pubs, negotiating columsn,
  articles, etc.

* and negotiating reciprocal links

...take "a lot" of time, right?

Are there any other ways to more effectively use our time to
leverage more efficient results? We all want to make the most
effective use of our time, don't we?

> > If you only get 10 visitors and all 10 buy, then isn't
> > this better than 100 visitors and only 
> > 1 buyer?  So, how do we
> > get the 10 to "buy" is my question?
> That, to me requires the same stuff that selling offline does..

Well... yes and no.

Offline, typically the seller initiates contact via direct mail,
telemarketing and/or the sales presentation, which really is
*taboo* online, right?  

Online your content really has to encourage the prospect to make
the initial contact and then you have to "court them" to make the
sale. It's real easy to "lose them" anywhere in the process, so
... What tips and techniques have others found to increase the
ratio of prospect/visitors to sales?

> > What are some good ways to follow-up on those who request
> > information through autoresponders? without 
> > being too "pushy"?
> I think it's wise to TELL them you will be contacting them when
> they request the autoresponder..

Good point!  I like that :)

Do you give them a way to tell you they don't want to be
contacted? That would be good as well, don't you think?

Thank you for your feedback.

Hope this helps,

- Michael S. DeVries

  Moderator, the I-Barter Moderated Discussion List  

*************** I-Barter Discussion List ***************
  Moderated Discussions of Trade / Barter in Business
*************** **************

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your post.  It covers a lot of ground, so I'll leave
most of it for others to respond to.  I'm most interested in your
comments on time management.  I spend about three hours editing
each issue of the EMD.  In the beginning I found that time frame
to be too much, so I began letting the EMD 'carry its own weight'
by leaving many posts for others to respond to.  This left me
with more time to accomplish other tasks, but I soon noticed that
my site log numbers, autoresponder requests and phone inquires -
heck, even the number of posts to the EMD - were declining.  

I realized that is the time I spend that makes it happen, that
the two are directly related.  That effort=results.  That
consistent efforts=consistent results.  

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

 Website Issues

***  FIRST TOPIC - The Future of High-Bandwidth Connections  ***

From: Joshua Reimer 
Subject: The Future of High-Bandwidth Connections

>I think the future of high-bandwidth internet connection
>availability will be split, tho not necessarily evenly, between
>satellite uplink providers and cable-based service providers.

You didn't mention ADSL here... is that not going to be a
contender in the high speed bandwidth wars? I know where I
live, there is a big debate as to wether to invest in a
personal ADSL line or to get a cable line from the local cable

Any thoughts? I know that cable sure is cheaper, at least where I


Joshua Reimer    
Promotion World! 
   Learn How To Promote Your Site For Free!

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Joshua,

Until your post I had never heard of ADSL.  A little research
revealed the following;

Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line

 + Transmits up to 8 Mbps downstream (toward the end-user), 
   and up to 768 Kbps upstream (away from the end-user) 

 + Can be configured to run as fixed rate ADSL or Rate 
   Adaptive ADSL (RADSL) 

 + Fully compliant with international standards for enhanced 
   performance, single pair ADSL transmission up to 4 km 

Now if someone would explain this to me?  ;->

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

 E-mail Corner

 In The News

 The Corkboard

***  FIRST TOPIC - Cornell News: better web search  ***

From:             "Cynthia (Sunni) Freyer" 
Subject:          Fw: Cornell News: better web search

Sifting through the jumble: A Cornell researcher finds a new way
retrieving just the right information from the web
FOR RELEASE:  April 17, 1998
Contact:  Bill Steele
Office:  (607) 255-7164
ITHACA, N.Y. -- The World Wide Web is an endless source of
information, but with literally millions of pages posted by
everyone from governments, universities and corporations to
sixth-graders and conspiracy theorists, it's getting harder and
harder to find precisely the "right" information.
Now a Cornell University researcher has come up with a method of
searching the web that can return a list of the most valuable
sites on a given topic, as well as a list of sites that index the
subject. Early tests of the method have produced highly focused
lists of sites on many topics, often comparable to lists
carefully compiled by web search experts.
The method was developed by Jon Kleinberg, Cornell professor of
computer science.  An evaluation of the method was presented at
the seventh International World Wide Web Conference held April
14-18 in Brisbane, Australia, in a paper by Kleinberg, David
Gibson of the Department of Computer Science, University of
California at Berkeley, and several IBM researchers.
Popular web-searching tools, known as engines, such as Yahoo! and
AltaVista, work by hunting for keywords in the text of web pages.
On some topics this can return hundreds or even thousands of
pages.  The algorithm (a set of rules specifying how to solve the
problem) developed by Kleinberg instead works by analyzing the
way web pages are linked to one another. the assumption behind
this is that the most authoritative pages on a given subject will
be those that are most often pointed to by other pages.
The web is annotated with "precisely the type of human judgment
we need to identify authority," Kleinberg explains. "It almost
says something about the way the web has evolved. I think it's
about the way people link information in general, not just on the
Kleinberg's method does more than just identify pages with useful
information about a topic, which he calls "authorities."  The
method also looks for pages that contain many links to pages with
useful information on the topic, which he calls "hubs."
The best authorities, Kleinberg says, will be those that point to
the best hubs, and the best hubs will be the ones that point to
the best authorities. Kleinberg prevents this from becoming a
circular definition by recalculating the relationship several
times, each time moving closer to the ideal result.
He has written a search program using this technique called HITS
(for Hyperlink-Induced Topic Search). HITS begins by conducting
an ordinary text-based search on a topic using a search engine
such as AltaVista. This collects a "root set" of about 200 pages
that contain the entered keywords. It then expands the set to
include all the pages linked to by pages in the root set. The
expanded set might include from 1,000 to 3,000 pages.
From there on, text is ignored, and the application only looks at
the way pages in the expanded set are linked to one another. The
first time through, it identifies the pages that are pointed to
most often by other pages, and assigns them a score, or "weight,"
indicating that they are more likely to be authorities.  At the
same time it notes the pages that contain more links to other
pages and gives them more weight as hubs.
This calculation is repeated several times. Each time the program
gives more authority weight to sites that link to sites with more
hub weight, and more hub weight to sites that link to sites with
more authority weight. Ten repetitions, Kleinberg says, are
enough to return surprisingly focused lists of authorities and
The system overcomes several of the problems frequently
identified with text-based searches. For example, at one time a
text-based search for "Gates" didn't return the Microsoft Corp.
home page because Microsoft chairman Bill Gates wasn't mentioned
on the opening page.  (He still isn't, but now his biography can
be found by following the link "About Microsoft.") A search for
"jaguar" returns a jumble of pages about cars, animals, the
Jacksonville Jaguars NFL team, and the obsolete but still
much-discussed Atari Jaguar computer.
In a case where a word represents more than one topic,
Kleinberg's method automatically separates sites into
"communities" of hubs and authorities, each representing one of
the possible topics. Thus a HITS search on "jaguar" lists first a
community of sites related to the Jaguar computer, because the
number of web sites on this subject predominate. Further down, it
listed communities relating to the football team and the car.
Finally it finds sparse information relating to the animal,
because this topic is simply not well represented on the web,
Kleinberg says.
Communities also form when a topic is polarized: A search on
"abortion" returns separate communities of pro-life and
pro-choice sites, because the sites within each community link
more densely to one other than to sites advocating an opposing
One disadvantage of the method, Kleinberg says, is that it
doesn't always work for sharply focused queries. A search for
"Netscape 4.04," for example, returns a general list of sites
about web browsers.
The paper being presented in Brisbane is titled "Automatic
Resource List Compilation by Analyzing Hyperlink Structure and
Associated Text." another paper by Kleinberg, "Authoritative
Sources in a Hyperlinked Environment," was published in the
"Proceedings of the 9th ACM-SIAM Symposium on discrete
Algorithms, 1998.  "A related paper, "Inferring Web Communities
from Link Topology," by Kleinberg, Gibson and Prabhakar Raghavan
of the IBM Almaden Research Center, appears in the "Proceedings
of the 9th ACM Conference on Hypertext and Hypermedia, 1998.
"The texts of these papers can be found on Kleinberg's web page
at .
Kleinberg developed the method while working as a visiting
scientist at IBM's Almaden Research Center, on leave from
Cornell.  IBM has applied for a patent on the algorithm.
Cornell University News Service
Surge 3
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
607-255-4206 phone
607-255-5373 fax

 Last Week's Question of the Week

"Do You Currently Market in Newsgroups?"

# of Respondents

Final Tally
Yes:    5
No      9

***  RESPONSES  ***

From: Dave Thuillier

Yes, with mixed results. About once a month I will post to 
targeted newsgroups with a short list and description of new 
product releases.

I have received a couple of negative responses in the form of
flames for posting off topic. (my error as I didn't follow the
NG long enough). 

My post is a copy of a mailing list I send out to subscribers so
there is minimal effort in posting. I cannot be sure what the
results of the NG posts were as I have not had a means set up to
track the results. In the future I plan to utilize a tracking 
page specifically to identify how many (if any) are visiting 
via posts. 

Dave Thuillier    
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=                603-464-4762

 This Week's Question of the Week

"Do you do your own online marketing, do you 
 use a service, or do you use both methods?"

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