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ISSN 1522-6913

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 The E-Marketing Digest
 Gary K. Foote, Moderator
 Volume #2,Issue #168
 May 1, 1998

 Put the EMD Member's Button on your website.  Declare your 
 pride in participation while helping to build circulation.


 The E-Marketing Digest Discount Pool 
 Group Registration Code = emd


 Table of Contents

 + New Topics

    "Internet Checks"
       - Clay Cook

 + Ongoing

    "Charging for Information Online"
       - Douglas Freake
       - Claudia Hafling
       - John Watkins

    "Spamming by Affiliates"
       - Paul Myers

    "Where & How Did You Hear About the EMD?"
       - Douglas Freake
       - Mel Eperthener

 + Website Issues

    "Building Site Traffic"
       - Larry D. Thompson

    "Internet Malls"
       - Jim Crawford

    "HTML Marketing"
       - Adam Creed

    "Interactive Websites"
       - Tom Kulzer

 + E-mail Corner

 + In The News

    "E-Tailer's Goes to Print!"
       - George Matyjewicz

 + The Corkboard

       - Claudia Hafling

 + Question of the Week

    "Where does the majority of your 
     site traffic come from?"

       - Responses
          o Adam Creed
          o Rev. Keith Londrie II
          o Tom Kulzer


 Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

Just a brief mention that the EMD Discount Pool is now in
operation.  You will first need to register with Delphi (free and
EZ) and second, use the following Group Registration Code to
become a member of the Discount Pool.  Code = "emd" (without the

Group Registration Code: emd

I hope everyone has a great weekend.  'See' you all on Monday.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


 New Topics

From: Clay Cook 
Subject: Internet Checks

Hi all :)

Our web promotion firm is based in Australia and most of our
clients are from the US, so we spend a long time waiting for
checks to come in via snail mail.

Has anyone had any experience with Internet Checks? Who is the
cheapest the best etc...

I have just had a quick look at Checker software... has anyone
used this software?

Kind Regards,
Clay Cook
Clay Cook
Business Web
Web promotion

[moderator's Comments]

Hi Clay,

I have no experience with the particular software you are
comsidering.  Anyone else here?

There was a fairly comprehensive discussion on this subject in
the recent past here.  You can use the new EMD archive search
tool to find the topic, "Checks by fax, phone and e-mail".  The
search page is at:

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  FIRST TOPIC - Charging for Information Online  ***

From: Douglas Freake 
Subject: Re: Charging for Information Online

>Are they also perhaps really wanting 
>something with shelf life? Something
>that they can peruse off the computer 
>screen?  Is that what the printed
>version delivers -- along with 
>visual relief of graphics?

Sunni, I agree that consumer attitudes are changing slowly to
accept and value electronic content. But how long this will take
before the masses come around is hard to say. The idea that
people still want something 'tangible for their money' is I think
a deep-rooted subconscious need developed over the years by our
perceptions and culture. The need for shelf-life and graphics can
explain some preferences for printed material - but printed
material and graphics does not necessarily give information
'shelf-life' and more value. 

As you pointed out, printed material may offer some advantages
over electronic content (i.e. peruse off-line etc.) but the
"savings incurred from no printing/ no mailing services cost" is
certainly a driving factor toward more electronic content. But if
the cost (time & money) of acquiring electronic information was
the same as it was for print - would the reader prefer the former
over the latter? The distribution of information electronically
offers publishers clear advantages - are the advantages of
electronic content less for readers?

>Interesting stuff, Sunni.  The 
>most interesting to me was the
>perception that something snail-
>mailed carries a higher intrinsic
>value than one e-mailed.

I plan on releasing a new newsletter next month. I think Sunni
brings up a good point about Net users perceived value of content
in electronic and print format and its relationship with Net
culture. People on the Net and those new to the Net are being
lead to expect free stuff - especially information. Many
marketers on the Net believe that giving something away for free
is good marketing - but in the long run - this could be just
creating and sustaining a consumer attitude that in the end
erodes the perceived value of the user.

I plan to charge for my new newsletter. First, it will be a Web
and e-mail version but I plan to move it to a print version
quickly, partly because of the point Sunni brought up - people on
the Net have a lower perceived value of electronic content. This
could be due to the fact that people still like to have something
tangible for their money.

PS. Does anyone know of people or companies that sell advertising
space on behalf of publishers?

Douglas Freake


From: Claudia Hafling <>
Subject: Charging for Information Online

>Just so everyone subscribed here 
>will know, we will *not* be
>going to a for-pay model for the 
>EMD in the forseeable future.
>Why?  Because, though I spend 
>around 3 hours editing each issue,
>it is our contributors - who are 
>also our readers - who provide
>the majority of content here.  Now, 
>who in their right mind would
>pay for something they had a hand 
>in creating?  Certainly not
>this smart bunch of folks."

No, But you could charge for some of the downloads on marketing
and such that you now provide for free to anybody at all on your site.  It's valuable information and it's all your
content.  It's worth a download charge.

--Claudia Hafling******************************
Media & Marketing Concepts
The Hospitality Marketer
Public Relations*Advertising*DTP*E-Marketing 
for Hotels*Motels*Restaurants & Resorts
Contact us at


From: The Simple Society 
Subject: Re: Charging for Information Online 

Gary, partly in response to Claudia Hafling, you wrote

>Just so everyone subscribed here 
>will know, we will *not* be
>going to a for-pay model for the 
>EMD in the forseeable future.
>Why?  Because, though I spend 
>around 3 hours editing each issue,
>it is our contributors - who are 
>also our readers - who provide
>the majority of content here.  Now, 
>who in their right mind would
>pay for something they had a hand 
>in creating?  Certainly not
>this smart bunch of folks."

If you look at practically any print periodical, it is composed
of contributions by people other than the editors and, in many
cases, by authors who are also subscribers. If you have 1,200
readers, how many of them are posting regularly and contributing
meaningful content? Probably no more than 20. So what about the
other 1180? In your case, your reward is from the business you
get, directly and by referral. So you are paid. But if the
purpose is essentially to provide information, it's valuable,
etc., it is reasonable to expect those who receive value to share
some of that value with you.  Just my 2.

John Watkins, Executive Director     The Simple Society

FREE--a subscription to Simple Solutions: the Email newsletter
that proves there are simpler solutions to major public problems.

[Moderator's Comments]

Douglas Freake, Claudia Hafling and John Watkins all make solid
points in their above discussions.  

Douglas, I'd be interested in hearing your subscription rate for
your new newsletter so I can post it here.  The future of pay-for
publications might be more clearly seen as a result.

Claudia, I have considered instituting a system of micro-charges
for much of my original content, which is, as you said, currently
available for free by a series of autoresponders.  I'm still not
sure if I would gain more than I would lose by doing so.  After
all, giving it away brings me business.  See below;

John, your observation, "In your case, your reward is from the
business you get, directly and by referral" is right on target.
The EMD is definitely a vehicle for reaching my potential market
from a position of 'expert'.  This, of course, does not discount
all the other benefits that have arisen as a result of its
existence, i.e., networking, lessons learned from others,
refinement of my own editorial skills and most of all, the
personal satisfaction I gain from providing something of value to
others in a timely and manageable format.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

***  NEXT TOPIC - Spamming by Affiliates  ***

From: "Paul Myers" 
Subject: Spree and Spammers


Looking at John Gerits' note, I have to say that I agree
completely. The biggest source of spam to
is now affiliate programs. All the MLM stuff and bulk email
sales, etc, are still coming in, of course. The amount of
affiliate-related spam is just outrageous.

I can say that I've had some real success by approaching the
companies themselves. In one case, an MLM company (Oyage)
responded with a change in their policies and the spam from their
distributors stopped immediately. The threat of losing a downline
seems to have a profound effect on MLMers.

Spree has had a policy in place from the beginning, as far as I
know. They are easily the most responsive of the bunch when they
receive complaints.

Still, I tend to agree with John in his statement that affiliate
programs should be more exclusive. Perhaps a way around that
which would be effective would be something like the ones that
some of the new online publishers use. Charge for the dealership,
provide the autoresponders, and police them yourself?


Editor, TalkBiz News - Subscribe at
Web Cards - Postcards with your web site on them! Ask for your
Free samples, and get a chance to Win 500 WebCards FREE at:

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Paul,

Good ideas...

>provide the autoresponders, 
>and police them yourself?

I'm not sure you could get people to pay to sell your stuff for
you, but I do think the idea of offering autoresponders is a good
one.  You could also offer a free homepage for each affiliate to
sell from, located at your domain. Provide a web based template
each affiliate can modify online to include their contact info
and some other basic stuff.  Control the basic web and text
message yourself so you don't have to police them.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

***  NEXT TOPIC - Where & How Did You Hear About the EMD?  ***

From: Douglas Freake 
Subject: Where/how did you hear about the EMD?


George 'the Rainmaker' brought it up on the IntlBiz 'Ray's' list
when he was Guest Moderator back in 1/21/98!

Douglas Freake   


From: Mel Eperthener 
Subject: Re: Where & How Did You Hear About the EMD?


Like so many others, I read about your publication in the
Tipworld Mailing List of the Day, and immediatly joined.  At the
time, I was an active participant in the LED (back when business
was slow) and saw many of the same people here that I had run
into at LED.

Can't remember seeing you mentioned in any other source, esp not
a magazine (like I have time for those anymore!) or newspaper.

BTW, sounds like this would make a great Question of the Week.


--Mel Eperthener
president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty
419 Butler Street               (412) 781-6140
PO Box 95184                    (412) 781-6380
Pittsburgh, PA 15223-0184       1-888-45-GOWANNA  TOLL FREE

[Moderator's Comments]

Thanks for your feedback, Douglas and Mel.  I haven't had anyone
ever mention that we have been covered in offline mediums.  It
would be nice to reach a good sized group by that method.  Anyone
have any contacts they'd like to use up?  ;->

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

 Website Issues

***  FIRST TOPIC - Building Site Traffic  ***

From: "Larry D. Thompson" 
Subject: My Site Traffic - How its Done

Our primary site, the World of Fishing, is truly a case of providing content
to a specific community as a means of establishing and maintain

From the time this site started in May of 1995, our business plan
was to become the destination site for anglers by providing
continually updated information and to be the hosting site for
many of the advertisers.  Our traffic has steadily grown and last
month we recorded over 1.7 million hits and over 350,000 page
views.  Much of this traffic is shared with our advertisers.

Of this amount of traffic, the search engines accounted for 2.6%
and links from other sites (estimated about 500 other sites link
to us) accounted for 3.5%.  We believe the majority of our
traffic is from return visits by the individuals' bookmarks.  We
(and our advertisers) also have print ads to promote various
areas of our site.

We don't sell banner ads to link to advertisers' sites hosted
elsewhere, but we do sell full pages or full web sites to our
advertisers which are then hosted on the World of Fishing.  In
fact, our committment to our advertisers is that we do not have
any links going to web pages that are hosted on other servers.

As stated, an estimated 500 other sites link to us, even though
our policy is to not link out, and our advertisers do not link
out.  Many of these links go directly to our advertisers' pages.

Because we are a community built around an interest (fishing) our
visitors are really interested in learning more about our
advertisers' products and services.  Our largest advertiser (with
about 60 web pages), one of the major bass boat manufacturers,
has their own registered domain name which they promote in all of
their print advertising, and the visitors can go directly to
their site (as part of the World of Fishing) through that URL.
Our records indicate that about 32% of their traffic comes
directly via their URL, and the other 68% first comes to our web
site before visiting their area.  The community is a win-win for
our visitors, our advertisers and the World of Fishing.

Our most popular content area is our News Room, because we
provide current news about the fishing industry including the
tournament circuit results that generally are not carried by the
daily print media or TV stations.  We will post anywhere from 3 -
12 stories per day.  (For the non-fishermen's edification,
tournament fishing is very big business.)

We have just inaugurated a daily e-mailed News Update service
that gives the headlines and a clickable link to the stories
posted within the past 24 hours.  It appears that this will
result in an additional increase of our traffic, but it will be
another couple of weeks before we can really tell how much.

We are believers in Content and Community as the best reasons for

Larry D. Thompson
(903) 882-8877  "The Anglers Place in Cyber Space"  "The Texas Place in Cyber Space"

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for posting your methods.  Good stuff.  You mentioned;

>In fact, our committment to our 
>advertisers is that we do not have
>any links going to web pages that 
>are hosted on other servers.

When I operated a community website we instituted the same
policy.  We felt that sending potential customers away from our
publication was a disservice to our paying 'tenants'.  We
experienced an unexpected level of e-mail from people
(non-tenants) disagreeing with this policy.  How about you?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

***  NEXT TOPIC - Internet Malls  ***

rom: Jim Crawford 
Subject: Internet Malls

Gary wrote:

One in particular, 'Internet Malls', has reached its
end as far as the debate over whether or not they actually work.
Instead, because it is certain they will be around for some time
to come, future posts on this subject should focus on *how* they
work best.

Hi Everyone,

I have been enjoying the discussion about malls, and
couldn't resist the opportunity to join in.

I promote advertising space in The Internet Antique Shop.  the Internet's largest antique &
collectible mall.

I think the strongest benefit we offer is our search engine
indexing.  The majority of our sites are catalog descriptions of
antiques and collectibles.  If a visitor is interested in brass
doorknobs, they can search the entire inventory of every dealer
in the mall. (over 60,000 items)  This kind of exposure is
difficult to achieve from the standard search engines.

The sense of community works as well.  If a visiting collector
has a question about a particular antique, they can send an email
to all 170 stores.  Those with an interest in that item can then
respond, and buyer and seller have made a connection.

I completely agree that store owners still need to create their
own traffic.  Simply opening a store in our mall will not
guarantee success. Collectors still need to develop innovative
ways of presenting their merchandise.

I think membership in our mall provides these "Mom and Pop"
operations the visibility they need to compete in this highly
competitive field.

Jim Crawford
Crawford Direct Marketing
Specializing in Antiques and Collectibles
   "The Collecting Opportunity of a Lifetime"

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Jim,

I like the following aspect of your Internet Mall;

>If a visiting collector has a question 
>about a particular antique, they can 
>send an email to all 170 stores.

This gives your tenants much higher visibility than a simple
listing/storefront.  I'll bet this feature gets used a lot, yes?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

***  NEXT TOPIC - HTML Marketing  ***

From: Adam Creed 
Subject: HTML Marketing

Hi Gary

An excellent and useful introduction to positioning. I will just
expand on one of the sections briefly:

>Title:  In the title I try to include 
>important keywords.  Don't
>simply use a business' name in a 
>page title, but instead add some
>meaningful content.

We noticed we were getting excellent positioning for our Internet
news and resources site, that was mostly down to the title
description. In turn this was down to the actual structure of our
site. In having logical sections and sub-sections digging down
through it is easy for the visitor.

So our titles are:

The Inside Running - Internet News and Views
(front page with links to topics)
The Inside Running - Electronic Commerce
(one of the topic sections, contains recent EC headlines)
The Inside Running - Electronic Commerce - Smart Cards
(contains EC stories about Smart Cards and resources)

Every sub-section has a title describing how it fits into the
site like above .

You can see that if people are searching for electronic commerce
keywords we rate strongly on the title, then links and file names
(did you mention those before?... give your filenames key word
terms as well!) as well as on the actual content. The logical
structure did our positioning for us!

So if you have a site about fishing, for example, a similar
method can be used:

[From front page to sub pages]

Bob's Fishing Accessories - Angling equipment, bait, hooks and

Bob's Fishing Accessories - Angling equipment, bait, hooks and
accessories - Rods

Bob's Fishing Accessories - Angling equipment, bait, hooks and
accessories - Bait

Bob's Fishing Accessories - Angling equipment, bait, hooks and
accessories - Hooks

Bob's Fishing Accessories - Angling equipment, bait, hooks and
accessories - Bait Tips and Tricks

The search engines seem to like it and coupled with the other
important points Gary raised you can improve your search


Adam Creed - Editor | ICQ: 2060228 | Tel: (613) 9842 4949
T h e  I n s i d e  R u n n i n g - Internet News & Views

E to subscribe

[Moderator's Comments]

Thanks Adam,

I never knew about filename relevance, but of course it makes
sense...  everything you can do to include keywords in your
website will increase traffic - with the exception of spamming
your own page with keywords coded to be the same color as the BG
(invisible text).  Most search engines will see this and lower
your relevance.

Anyone else have any good tips on HTML marketing techniques?

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

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***  NEXT TOPIC - Interactive Websites  ***

From:    Tom Kulzer 
Subject: Interactive Websites  

 Nancy Roebke wrote:

>AND the page of my site that gets the most traffic from this 
>marketing is one that is INTERACTIVE... It requires 
>PARTICIPATION by the visitor.. I find that is a very good 

Nancy and I have discussed INTERACTIVE website features on
another excellent list (Talkbiz).  It's been a couple of weeks
since I originally put up my interactive website feature and
so far it has been immensely popular.  Over half of my visitors
take the time to complete our "Interactive Entrepreneur

The profiler takes their answers and tells them in a customized 
email message whether or not their picks were what "most" 
entrepreneurs would have done in that particular situation.
I've received a great deal of feedback on the profiler, most
of which has been VERY positive.  I think this could possibly
be an interesting topic, how have others used interactive 
website features to draw traffic and build rapport (sp?)
with their visitors?  

I've already begun researching several other Interactive 
features to be implemented just as soon as I have time to
code them.  Although the Profiler looks simple from the
surface the actual "workings" of it take a great deal of
planning and optimization to work correctly.

Best Regards,
Tom Kulzer

 --))    FREE Interactive Entrepreneur Profiler   ((--
 ----))       ((----

[Moderator's Comments]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your comments.  You've got me thinking about what kind
of interactivity might be of value at my various sites.  Is
anyone else here having good experience with built-in

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

 E-mail Corner

[No posts to The E-mail corner Today]

 In The News

***  FIRST TOPIC - E-Tailer's Goes to Print!  ***

From:               Rainmaker 
Subject:            A first for the Net!


The Editor-In-Chief of Gifts & Decorative Accessories magazine
has agreed to publish E-Tailer's Digest in their fine magazine --
a first for the Net!  He and I discussed E-Tailer's and what we
are trying to accomplish and he asked for some sample issues,
which I sent to him.  The quality and variety of the posts
impressed him, so he said let's go.

We will select some posts from the digest and submit them to the
magazine for publication, along with the proper credit to list
members of course.  I will notify those members if we use one of
your posts, to get your approval.  If anybody does not want to be
considered, please let me know and I will flag your name.

Gifts & Decorative Accessories magazine has a paid subscription
base of 32,000 and has 100,000 pass-alongs (per ABC).  They are
the international business magazine of gifts, tabletop, gourmet,
gift baskets, home accessories, greeting cards and stationery.  I
write the Technology Trends column for the magazine and act as
editor on technology issues and on their annual technology

The purpose of E-Tailer's Digest is to provide a total resource
for retailers -- both on- and off-line.   We  discuss any and
all subjects that pertain to retailing, which  might include, but
of course not limited to, interaction with customers,
psychographics, point of sale software solutions, point of
purchase displays, security issues, effective merchandising, mail
order issues, shipping and tax issues, accounting and legal
issues, public relations, promotions and advertising, on-line
marketing, differentiation, doing business internationally and
effective web site design.

We're excited.

George Matyjewicz            "Rainmaker Extraordinaire"
Managing Partner   
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Tel: (201) 939-8533 Ext 821  Fax: (201) 460-3740
Automated Press Releases:
350 Seminars & Trade shows:

[Moderator's Comments]

For those subscribers here who are not aware, The E-Tailer's
Digest is a sister publication to The E-Marketing Digest,
co-published by Webbers Communications and Gap Enterprises.
George took over the moderation of the ETD after its first few
issues and has done an amazing job, both in his style of
moderation and in his unceasing efforts to promote it.
Congratulations, George.

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote

 The Corkboard

***  FIRST TOPIC - Correction  ***

From: Claudia Hafling <>
Subject: Correction

I wrote:

>Ten dollars a month will not break 
>anybody and it is much cheaper
>than any magazine subscriptions 
>(annual) that I now take."

Pardon me.  I didn't mean $10 a month.  I meant $10 a year for
a subscription to an email newsletter.  Oops.

--Claudia Hafling*********************************
Media & Marketing Concepts
The Hospitality Marketer
Public Relations*Advertising*DTP*E-Marketing 
for Hotels*Motels*Restaurants & Resorts
Contact us at

 Question of the Week

 Where does the majority of your 
 site traffic come from?
    - Search engines
    - Links from other sites
    - Mailinglist participation
    - Newsgroup participation
    - E-mail marketing
    - Other (please explain)

 Please Post Your Responses to:

***  RESPONSES  ***

From:               Adam Creed 

The Inside Running solicited on newgroups primarily and that
continues to be a regular part of our marketing but as we grow
and the site grows with us other methods bring visitors and we
begin to concentrate our efforts on these also.

1 Newsgroup participation
2 Links from other sites
3 Other - word of mouth and referrals
4 Search engines
5 Mailinglist participation
6 Email marketing
Because The Inside Running is an email publication as well as
Web-based we don't necessarily even need to point people to the
Web site, so our marketing is slightly different than for a
product Web site, for example. Links and referrals and branding
come into it a lot.

Adam Creed - Editor | ICQ: 2060228 | Tel: (613) 9842 4949
T h e  I n s i d e  R u n n i n g - Internet News & Views

E to subscribe


From: "Information Services" 

X   - E-mail marketing
X   - Other (please explain) - My newsletter

------------------  Your Information Source  -------------------
Rev. Keith Londrie II
Information Services
Keokuk, Iowa USA             What's an Information Professional?
----------------- --------------------


From:               Tom Kulzer 

 5%   - Search engines
 8%   - Links from other sites

87% - All below
      - Mailinglist participation
      - Newsgroup participation
      - E-mail marketing
      - Other

Other:  Writing and publishing articles make up a VERY high
percentage of my visitors.  Of the groups above I had to 
include them all into one category because it is difficult
for me to track specific sources of traffic since they either
type the URL in or just click on it from an email message.
I always notice a huge jump in traffic after my article appears
in any particular publication.

Best Regards,
Tom Kulzer

 --))    FREE Interactive Entrepreneur Profiler   ((--
 ----))       ((----


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