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ISSN 1522-6913

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 The E-Marketing Digest
 Gary K. Foote, Moderator
 Volume #2,Issue #171
 May 8, 1998

 Put the EMD Member's Button on your website.  Declare your 
 pride in participation while helping to build circulation.


 The E-Marketing Digest Discount Pool 
 Group Registration Code = emd


 Table of Contents

 + Ongoing

    "Charging for E-pubs"
       - Shannon Kinnard
       - Larry D. Thompson
       - Amit Malik
       - Barb Sybal

 + Website Issues

    "Alternate to Cookies"
       - David Bredeweg

 + E-mail Corner
    ".sig Files"
       - George Matyjewicz

    "Netscape Mail"
       - Connie Barrett

 + In The News

 + The Corkboard

    "Seeking Columnists"
       - Amit Malik

 + Question of the Week

    "What makes EMD different from the 
     other marketing lists on the NET?"

       - Responses
            o Irwin


 Moderator's Comments

Hi All,

Today's issue is moderator comment-free as I have to take care of
a non-work related obligation that takes me away from my computer
early today.  Happy Friday, everyone.  Have a great weekend.

And now, on with the show...

Your Moderator,

Gary K. Foote


***  FIRST TOPIC - Charging for E-pubs  ***

From: "Shannon Kinnard" 
Subject: Re: Charging for E-pubs

Reading the whole making-money-off-epubs thread gave me an idea. 

To sum up some of the thoughts, the content of an epub is
valuable from a time-spent perspective; however, the content
would only be valuable from a money-spent perspective if it were
a printed document accompanied by graphs and pictures laid out
nicely. Archived posts and back issues are valuable to
subscribers as well.

Publishers want to receive revenue directly (through subscribers
or advertisers) or indirectly (through new business/better
reputation), but would prefer the first way of making money.

So here's my idea: If the publisher of your favorite online pub
were to offer a printed booklet (like a Kinko's document, not
some fancy schmancy glossy pub), say once a quarter, that
filtered, summarized, indexed, and added pictures, charts and
graphs to all the posts for that quarter, would you buy it? Would
you pay for a subscription to it? How much would you pay for such
a valuable resource?


     Shannon Kinnard ~
      The Idea Station ~
   Join the "Online Publishers Moderated Discussion List"
    for the "How-tos" & "Why-tos" of Online Newsletters
     send Blank E-


From: "Larry D. Thompson" 
Subject: Charging for E-pubs

I am both a print publisher and an on-line publisher and I would
like to add my 2.5 to the discussion about charging for on-line

We need to be careful about assuming the grass is greener on the
other side of the line (off-line vs on-line) in getting paid
subscribers for your publication.

Getting paid subscribers for print publications is an extremely
difficult, time consuming and expensive job.  A ball-park figure
to get a new subscriber is a Ten Dollar Bill ($10).  The
economics of getting a new subscriber means that your printing
and delivery cost will probably go up more than you receive from
that subscriber. As an example, a monthly publication that sells
for $18 may spend $10 to get a subscriber and then spend another
$10-$12 for the printing and mailing cost during the next year.

The real benefit is to have more subscribers so you can get more
advertising revenue, which is normally based upon the CPM
(Advertising dollars received based upon a Cost Per Thousand).
CPM will generally run $20 to $50 for a 7-1/2" X 10" print ad,
depending upon your market.

Many of the "trade magazines", those who go to the business
people in a specific market, do not charge subscription fees
because it is easier and more profitable to get "qualified free
subscribers" than paid subscribers, and their real revenues comes
from advertisers.

The first thing is that you could probably get paid subscribers
for on-line, if you put the effort and money into getting those
subscribers, assuming that you have valuable content.

However, the end results would probably be that you have only a
fraction of the  eyeballs that you need to sell advertising.

The ultimate success for the majority of on-line publishers will
be a result of selling advertising, meaning that you need to get
more eyeballs.

Overall, in my opinion, the on-line future is a lot more positive
than the future of off-line publishing business.  The cost of the
postage and the cost of paper and printing will continue to go
up.  The difficulty of getting new paid subscribers for print
publications is increasing and will continue to increase,
especially as more imformation is available, much of which is
free and much more timely.

The cost of delivery of on-line content is basically fixed within
a range, regardless of the size of the audience that you are
serving. Once you have reached your critical mass, the
profitability can increase greatly.

Finally, you must realize that it is not a simple job to sell
advertising, either on-line or off-line.  Both take a lot of hard
work.  If you specialize within a niche market, you can sell
advertising to the smaller companies within that market.  If your
audience is general, you will probably need to be a large player
in order to get attention.

Larry D. Thompson
(903) 882-8877  "The Anglers Place in Cyber Space"
Free: Daily e-mail News UpDate  "The Texas Place in Cyber Space"


From: "Amit Malik, The Column Jockey Inc." 
Subject: Charging for E-pubs

Michael, People,

> Despite your comments regarding 
> the content authoring, Gary, 
> my question is how can we, e-media 
> publishers, afford the
> time and effort commitments required 
> to publish a quality e-pub for
> very long with little or no compensation?

I would like to address this issue by saying that - one should
get in to e-pubs only when...

... One has a product/ service to sell. (So like... you very very
gently use the e-pub as a vehicle to promote and publicize it and
keep it (your service) in your target market's/ prospect's mind
always. If you are not gentle, you will drive away people.)

If you (don't have a product/ service BUT) want to make money by
subscription etc., look only as far as your local community!
Start with a "local news" e-pub or with "how to get on the net"
e-pub... maybe a "what to find, where to find" or simply a
"Amazing sites you-must-see" e-pub... Save them time, tell them
that it will save them time, they will be more willing to pay.

But wait there's more! The important part: People are not
confident buying zine content on the net. You charge on the
printed version (sent by post to them) but having extra
"subscriber's-only features/ content" than the free internet

...Think before you start an e-pub. The most important question
is: Do you have a product/ service to sell? Then take it from

> My concern being that if 
> e-media publishers cannot
> afford to continue to invest 
> their time and energy into producing
> quality e-pubs, then we will see 
> quality e-pubs "slowly die off". One
> tends to disagree. If the quality is 
> high. Subscription is high.
> Subscription is high, you can do 1001 
> things. In fact, it so becomes that 
> you don't have to!

Take I-Sales, John Audette, for instance. He got a free plug on
CNBC! What else does he need? (!!!) Really. An advert does not
get the mileage that a recommendation gets...

There are at least 200,000 people on the net who "know" him
(because of his online e-pubs) and would definitly have him on
their minds *when* they want what John has to sell.

> I would like to hear the thoughts  
> of the E-Mark Members regarding
> whether they share these concerns 
> and if there are any ideas on how 
> we can prevent the loss of quality 
> e-pubs due to lack of revenue?

Revenue or no revenue, if its quality (and you can stay around
for 10-12 weeks, while you do the *promotions*) you will survive!
And survive in style!

--- IMPORTANT NOTE: If you take my word for it, fine, skip the
remaining portion. If you are someone who would like to challenge
that read on... but subdue your "this is a plug" antennas,
because understand that, that's the only way I can tell you, why
I am so confident of the above remark! ---

How can I say that? Well, it just happened that I started this
webzine, did some promotion and *three weeks* hence we get the
second oldest award on the net, (which Jim Wilson, Internet guru,
says, is worth getting!) for our efforts! AND we didn't even
apply for the award (or any award for that matter)!

AND I am looking forward to add 7000+ readers this week!

Check for quality.

Hopefully, in another 12 weeks we will survive & survive in
style! :)

Best Wishes,


We must be doing something right?!
Subscribe to Monday Magazine - The FREE Business Webzine!
Sample copy by autoresponder:


From: "B.A. Sybal" 
Subject: Charging for E-pubs

> Michael S. DeVries:
> referral business, etc. right?  
> Unfortunately, at this point, I
> don't have any really good answers, 
> just concerns, and I would
> like to hear the thoughts of the 
> E-Mark Members regarding whether
> they share these concerns and if 
> there are any ideas on how we
> can prevent the loss of quality 
> e-pubs due to lack of revenue?

Hi Gary and EMD'ers,

I don't share these concerns for the following reasons.

Perhaps it's because I tend to subscribe to a number
of e-pubs, but am not always an active participant, which
I'll presume occurs to most online publications.

Why on earth would an e-pub expect to get paid
(by subscribers) for people's comments, questions,
and opinions? When I purchase a magazine, it's
because I've had the opportunity to glimpse through
it prior to purchasing it --- if I'm a subscriber, I'm
subscribed because I know that most of the time,
the issues are relevant to my interests. However,
when it comes to e-pubs, 99% of the content is
usually not of interest to me -- it's rare to find that
"gem of wisdom", especially when you've been
online for awhile and find the same questions,
comments and opinions in almost every e-pub
(just asked or opined by someone else).

An e-pub is always moderated by someone
at a level of experience in a particular field, and
the subscribers are the ones that make it
or break it ... not like a magazine where editors
and journalists are paid for their articles, so
why should I pay for a comment that could
be from someone who has no experience or
less experience than myself -- in and of itself,
it certainly does sound ridiculous.

I strongly believe that moderators, unless
they are hired by an outside company, should
never expect to get paid to cut and paste
messages into an e-mail and send it off to
their database of names (I know, I know,
it's probably more complicated, but it
is a perception). The pay-off should be
a trusted relationship, which may or
may not turn into a business relationship.

I know of what I speak as I retained Gary
and Webbers Communications to assist
my marketing needs, and that was only
after knowing him online, through this
list, for only a short period of time.

I'm sure these sentiments are echoed
throughout the online community: if I trust
a few people who have offered me valuable
information through an e-pub, I will ensure
that I retain their services in the future.

This should be what e-pubs expect and should
only ever expect --- please don't gloss it
over with the amount of time (for nothing)
that it takes to create it. The bottom line
is that it's the moderator's choice to spend
his/her time gaining the trust of potentially
thousands of people. If the moderator isn't
getting a satisfactory conversion, then
perhaps it's time to re-think his/her strategy
and hire a marketing strategist.


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My Sentiments(TM) Greeting Cards
Supplying greeting cards
    to retailers since 1996
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 Website Issues

***  FIRST TOPIC - Alternate to cookies  ***

From: "David Bredeweg" 
Subject: Alternate to cookies

Hi Gary and all others,

I found the comment by Terry in a previous post very interesting: 

>For those of you in programs that 
>are using any form of cookie
>for tracking you are not getting 
>referrals for large amounts of
>your referrals. I recently moved 
>up a level to a reseller from an
>affiliate status here's what I've 
>seen so far since losing the 
>cookie factor. I am currently using 
>several and all use cookies for 

Personally I have never had a problem with permitting cookies,
but this seems to be a major concern for many. If so, what is
there currently that suppliers could use to record referrals? I
have recently set up a separate site to market these programs,
which reflects another comment by Terry, namely that:

> people realize they actually have to expend some
>energy to achieve the sales needed for a decent living.

The site is

More importantly I have also set up an Affilitates' Forum for a
place to specifically deal with this upcoming phonomenon -
affiliate marketing.

David Bredeweg
Blue Ribbon Marketing
voice 561-641-9887    FAX: 561-433-3979
Low Cost Business Services for SOHO

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 E-mail Corner

***  FIRST TOPIC - .sig Files  ***

From: Rainmaker 
Subject: .sig Files

>Just FYI, there is a page at the EMD website with a link to a
>wonderful post by subscriber Nick Nichols on .sig files, as well
>as a link to a number of examples.

I'll go one further and recommend you use various sig lines
depending on what you want to promote or what your post is all
about.  I have 21 sig lines.  If I am talking about E-Tailer's
Digest, I use the ETD sig.  If I am posting on marketing your
web, I'll use the MYWEB sig line.  If it's a humorous post, I use
the smile sig.   It' very similar to placing a classified ad with
every post.


George Matyjewicz,  C.M.O.
GAP Enterprises, Ltd.
Moderator of E-Tailer's Digest
Your Resource for Retail on the Net  
MYWEB - Marketing  Your Web 

***  NEXT TOPIC - Netscape Mail  ***

From: Connie Barrett & Joyce Kaessinger 
Subject: Netscape Mail


Although I have two newsletter mailing lists managed by a mailing
list company (Databack, which I highly recommend for large lists)
I have some smaller mailing lists in Netscape Mail (version
3.04). I have a Macintosh computer.

I've been trying to open one of the list (my customers!) so that
I can print it out, but it's too large for Simple Text to read.
Does anyone have suggestions?

I may decide to use Pegasus instead of Netscape. If I do, can the
email list be easily transferred?

Connie Barrett
Beyond the Rainbow: Resources for Well Being/Gifts with Spirit
Flower Essences, Aromatherapy, Crystals, Fountains,
Jewelry, Angels, Goddesses, and More
Free Email Newsletters

 The Corkboard

***  FIRST TOPIC - Seeking Columnists  ***

From: "Amit Malik, The Column Jockey Inc." 
Subject: Seeking Columnists


I like to take this opportunity to ask if anyone would be
interested in taking part in our award winning webzine?
(Monday Magazine.)

Authors, (Web) Researchers, Reviewers... ?
Please check
to "get a feel" of the zine. Thanks.

Due credit will be given.



We must be doing something right?!
Subscribe to Monday Magazine - The FREE Business Webzine!
Sample copy by autoresponder:

 Question of the Week

"What makes EMD different from the 
 other marketing lists on the NET?"

 Please Post Your Responses to:

***  RESPONSES  ***

From: Irwin 
Subject: My QOTW Post

Hello Gary:

        EMD is different in many ways. There is a good mix of
"heavy" informative stuff, light "fun" (yet informative), very
good advice .... and your style as Moderator. I can't really put
my hands on it, but you seem to have developed a fairly well
"bonded" marketing community. I sometimes get the feeling that I
actually "know" the members .... many are becoming household
names and I DO tell my associates .......... Claudia Hafling
(brilliant as usual), Nancy Roebke, Joshua Reimer, John Gerits
(right up there with the best) ... and the information is so
freely shared. The IS good because it develops TRUST and this
leads to SALES.  EMD ranks right up there with the best of them.

FREE e-zine (not lengthy) on Motivational
And HOW to get more Info. Write Subscribe in subject line.


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